ozziejoe wrote:I should note that your are just making a cliam here, and then repeating it. this does not constitute evidence. Indeed, some of the things that have been said about vas and rybka in this thread border on slander. The claims seem to be unsupported by evidence but mostly meant to hurt him and his business.
It does not matter how many people sarcastly repeat fruit = rybka. This is not evidence.
Vas has been devoted to chess (as an international master) and programming for quite some time, and deserves some benefit of the doubt, until their is evidence. I can say from a chess playing perspective that rybka does not play much like fruit and right from the begining killed fruit 2.2. (much better than the version vas was said to be stealing from). Rybka right from the beginning played like no program i'd ever seen. that is the only evidence i have. It is not iron clad, but it is something. Strelka, in contrast, played just like rybka, even down to the odd errors.
In my view, the current evidence points to strelka being a clone of rybka, and to rybka being something distinctive and new. This is not total proof, but it does fall into the category of evidence i think. It is the best we have.
best
Joseph
I not against Rybka, but I also not against Strelka. And if you speak that Strelka a clone I approve, that it precisely same clone as well as Rybka. They simply have one parent.
No this is untrue. Because otherwise O didnt hide like a crook! That alone is the proof for the evil he has done and he has some support now.
For development computer chess Osipov has made much more than Vas, and it is absolutely free-of-charge.
It is hard to compare because Osipov could not do what he did without Vas.
Uri
Sorry, Uri, but I must say this: it's absolutely uninteresting and well allowed that O is based on Vas. What makes the case a criminal is not that he took the code but that he has stolen it without permission and mention. This is the crime and if you now are highly interested in this illegal product, you participüate and support criminal activities. You should therefore be forbidden to participate in the CCT10.
Sorry Rolf but it is not clear if using strelka is illegal.
Vas does not plan even to take legal action against Osipov because of strelka1.0
He is going to do it only if Osipov does another crime and release code of commercial version of rybka.
If Vas plans to release strelka under his name as he suggested in the rybka forum I see no diffference between being interested in Vas code and being interested in strelka2.0
ozziejoe wrote:I should note that your are just making a cliam here, and then repeating it. this does not constitute evidence. Indeed, some of the things that have been said about vas and rybka in this thread border on slander. The claims seem to be unsupported by evidence but mostly meant to hurt him and his business.
It does not matter how many people sarcastly repeat fruit = rybka. This is not evidence.
Vas has been devoted to chess (as an international master) and programming for quite some time, and deserves some benefit of the doubt, until their is evidence. I can say from a chess playing perspective that rybka does not play much like fruit and right from the begining killed fruit 2.2. (much better than the version vas was said to be stealing from). Rybka right from the beginning played like no program i'd ever seen. that is the only evidence i have. It is not iron clad, but it is something. Strelka, in contrast, played just like rybka, even down to the odd errors.
In my view, the current evidence points to strelka being a clone of rybka, and to rybka being something distinctive and new. This is not total proof, but it does fall into the category of evidence i think. It is the best we have.
best
Joseph
I not against Rybka, but I also not against Strelka. And if you speak that Strelka a clone I approve, that it precisely same clone as well as Rybka. They simply have one parent.
No this is untrue. Because otherwise O didnt hide like a crook! That alone is the proof for the evil he has done and he has some support now.
For development computer chess Osipov has made much more than Vas, and it is absolutely free-of-charge.
It is hard to compare because Osipov could not do what he did without Vas.
Uri
Sorry, Uri, but I must say this: it's absolutely uninteresting and well allowed that O is based on Vas. What makes the case a criminal is not that he took the code but that he has stolen it without permission and mention. This is the crime and if you now are highly interested in this illegal product, you participüate and support criminal activities. You should therefore be forbidden to participate in the CCT10.
Sorry Rolf but it is not clear if using strelka is illegal.
Vas does not plan even to take legal action against Osipov because of strelka1.0
He is going to do it only if Osipov does another crime and release code of commercial version of rybka.
If Vas plans to release strelka under his name as he suggested in the rybka forum I see no diffference between being interested in Vas code and being interested in strelka2.0
Vas said the following:
"In light of the above, I am claiming Strelka 2.0 as my own and will release it in the next few days under my own name"
If Vas does not tell people not to look at strelka because it is illegal
I see no reason not to look at strelka.
Uri
But Uri. You leave out that Vas planned to edit the code with correcting it by taking out illegal material. Of course then you could "see" that thing but he also said that he didnt know if it would still run.
Second point. You know too well that the O figure is anonymous. But Vas still asked to give him information about his identity. I take for granted that Vas then would sue the figure. I already offered 1000$$ for ther information about O. So, let's give some time to potential witnesses.
In the meantime you can well learn from all that code details but why always going public as if you were analysing a kosher software. Dont you see the influence this might have on lays. If Uri takes Strelka we do it too. Why bother about the lame question of illegality or crimes? I think experts like you should be role models of the good sort.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz
ozziejoe wrote:I am running a biggish gauntlet and will post results in a few hours. It looks like strelka 2 is stronger than the newest toga, and probably about 15 pnts stronger than rybka beta 1.0 . it is not stronger than rybka of course
j
My test show it is somewhat weaker than Rybka beta.
It is supposed to be better than rybka beta 1.0 based on the comments about 60 elo improvement.
Did you test against 32 bit rybka or against 64 bit version?
Uri
The tests were 32bit Uri.
Now running
Toga II v3.1.2. vs. Strelka 2. 8.5-4.5.
If Strelka 2 is a clone of Rybka beta or Fruit it is weaker than
either one.
Maybe the 64 bit is better.
ozziejoe wrote:I am running a biggish gauntlet and will post results in a few hours. It looks like strelka 2 is stronger than the newest toga, and probably about 15 pnts stronger than rybka beta 1.0 . it is not stronger than rybka of course
j
My test show it is somewhat weaker than Rybka beta.
It is supposed to be better than rybka beta 1.0 based on the comments about 60 elo improvement.
Did you test against 32 bit rybka or against 64 bit version?
Uri
The tests were 32bit Uri.
Now running
Toga II v3.1.2. vs. Strelka 2. 8.5-4.5.
If Strelka 2 is a clone of Rybka beta or Fruit it is weaker than
either one.
Maybe the 64 bit is better.
I am surprised by your results because in the rybka forum I read different results
What is the time control that you used?
Maybe you did not play enough games.
8.5-4.5 is not significant result and results in the rybka forum suggest that strelka2 is slightly better than fruit or rybka beta
ozziejoe wrote:I am running a biggish gauntlet and will post results in a few hours. It looks like strelka 2 is stronger than the newest toga, and probably about 15 pnts stronger than rybka beta 1.0 . it is not stronger than rybka of course
j
My test show it is somewhat weaker than Rybka beta.
It is supposed to be better than rybka beta 1.0 based on the comments about 60 elo improvement.
Did you test against 32 bit rybka or against 64 bit version?
Uri
The tests were 32bit Uri.
Now running
Toga II v3.1.2. vs. Strelka 2. 8.5-4.5.
If Strelka 2 is a clone of Rybka beta or Fruit it is weaker than
either one.
Maybe the 64 bit is better.
I am surprised by your results because in the rybka forum I read different results
What is the time control that you used?
Maybe you did not play enough games.
8.5-4.5 is not significant result and results in the rybka forum suggest that strelka2 is slightly better than fruit or rybka beta
Uri
I used 2/12 time.
True 13 games doesn't prove anything.
I run other tests but will not post them
I don.t need to test Strelka 2 or the other clone.
To me they are weak and i don't need them
for my tests.
ozziejoe wrote:I am running a biggish gauntlet and will post results in a few hours. It looks like strelka 2 is stronger than the newest toga, and probably about 15 pnts stronger than rybka beta 1.0 . it is not stronger than rybka of course
j
My test show it is somewhat weaker than Rybka beta.
It is supposed to be better than rybka beta 1.0 based on the comments about 60 elo improvement.
Did you test against 32 bit rybka or against 64 bit version?
Uri
The tests were 32bit Uri.
Now running
Toga II v3.1.2. vs. Strelka 2. 8.5-4.5.
If Strelka 2 is a clone of Rybka beta or Fruit it is weaker than
either one.
Maybe the 64 bit is better.
I am surprised by your results because in the rybka forum I read different results
What is the time control that you used?
Maybe you did not play enough games.
8.5-4.5 is not significant result and results in the rybka forum suggest that strelka2 is slightly better than fruit or rybka beta
Uri
I used 2/12 time.
True 13 games doesn't prove anything.
I run other tests but will not post them
I don.t need to test Strelka 2 or the other clone.
To me they are weak and i don't need them
for my tests.
