Strelka will be open-source?

[IgorGorelikov]

There is an interesting interview with Osipov in Russian at

http://www.sdchess.ru/osipov_int1.htm

My translation of a couple of sentences.

"What about to open my code to all I want to do it. And probably I will do it. Although I don't want to hurry with it and first consider all consequences of it."

"I can only say that my interest in alpha-beta algorithm is exhausted and I don't want to move further in this direction. I whould like to find someone or someones to hand over my work."

Also Osipov speaks out about his original algorithm he want to implement.

[Sergei Markoff]

There is an interesting interview with Osipov in Russian

It was already been here. Please keep in view that this interview was given prior to the "big cloning flame".

"What about to open my code to all I want to do it. And probably I will do it. Although I don't want to hurry with it and first consider all consequences of it."

Finally I was involved as expert to confirm that Strelka is not a clone. It was after finishing of this interview. After my announcement that Strelka is not a clone, a lot of people in community stated that they don't trust both me and Osipov. After big flame in this forum and also at kasparovchess Osipov was really depressed. I offered him to show his sources to western experts. He said: "you can do with my sources everything what you want. I don't have a desire to continue my work". Also he said that he already have such a negative expirience with a people comminity and it looks that this is a repetition of this annoying thing.
I tried to change his mind about this story. We will meet again at this week to discuss a further work. I hope everything will be ok and he will continue his work, but you must keep in view that a lot of things was changed since that interview.

[Rolf]

There is an interesting interview with Osipov in Russian

It was already been here. Please keep in view that this interview was given prior to the "big cloning flame".

"What about to open my code to all I want to do it. And probably I will do it. Although I don't want to hurry with it and first consider all consequences of it."

Finally I was involved as expert to confirm that Strelka is not a clone. It was after finishing of this interview. After my announcement that Strelka is not a clone, a lot of people in community stated that they don't trust both me and Osipov. After big flame in this forum and also at kasparovchess Osipov was really depressed. I offered him to show his sources to western experts. He said: "you can do with my sources everything what you want. I don't have a desire to continue my work". Also he said that he already have such a negative expirience with a people comminity and it looks that this is a repetition of this annoying thing.
I tried to change his mind about this story. We will meet again at this week to discuss a further work. I hope everything will be ok and he will continue his work, but you must keep in view that a lot of things was changed since that interview.

Sergei,

a little preface: I satand under moderator order/warning NOT to mention or discuss ethical background of the actual scandal, but you already know what I think about it - BTW published at a moment when the verdict of Bryan wasnt there yet.

So let me concentrate on some technical aspect. I read a lot of advises where people thought the best for Yuri would be going commercial, as if then the whole preocedure could be called justified post mortem.

The actual crisis of the programmer Yuri seems to be caused by a widely spread lack of respect for his own work and creativity. So to me it seems that you might have a difficult task in persuading your collegue to continue his work at all.

IMO it was also very wrong to think that the supervision of two westerners could do a Russian programmer any good. I must always remember the way how condescending the treatment was which Botvinnik got when he couldnt show Westerners a ready made program or machine. As if he with his intelligence and creativity would have to prove anything to witnesses from the West.

So I really fear that Yuri might lose his motivation also because what professional program in chess did EVER show its source code? FRITZ? SHREDDER? JUNIOR?

Our scandal, but you say that you saw the same on a Kasparov server, is certainly a big obstacle for a Russian who might have had his own experience with control by the State, anyway by authorities who dont care about creativity of individuals but who are led by more classically conditioned reflexes against the mind of individuals as such. Talking about witch hunt for example.

Please tell Yuri that a programmer like Gert Isenberg, a CCC VIP like Fernando Villegas and myself as a CC enthusiast with some others published their strong critic in favor of Yuri and his Strelka - long before the verdict of Bryan.

Thanks for your personal efforts. All the best to you over there.

[Mike S.]

The actual crisis of the programmer Yuri seems to be caused by a widely spread lack of respect for his own work and creativity.

Are you aware that "Yuri Osipov" is only a pseudonym, as he acknowledges in the interview?

His work and creativity have been estimated "D-" by D.Corbit:

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=116874

This case is very unlike another case in the past, where we were of the same opinion. There are just too many "purely coincidental?!" similarities and other observations. Did you know that some weeks before Strelka was published, a poster on that same russian forum posted he had decompiled and analysed Rybka's code, and explained several "Rybka secrets" he claimed to have found?

http://kasparovchess.crestbook.com/view ... hp?id=1490

So far, we have one or two "expert" opinions who say it's original code, but they did NOT acknowledge that this code is different from Rybka's sources, or how much different. The strong similarities which have been found, are still to be explained.

This circus is going to continue, because the community, in it's majority, lacks a sense of realism. You know the popular saying, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quaks like a duck...

[Dann Corbit]

The actual crisis of the programmer Yuri seems to be caused by a widely spread lack of respect for his own work and creativity.

Are you aware that "Yuri Osipov" is only a pseudonym, as he acknowledges in the interview?

His work and creativity have been estimated "D-" by D.Corbit:

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=116874

The part that I said was bad was (ironically) largely written by me!
The Winboard interface that he uses is from Beowulf.
The really good part (the engine) is all his.

This case is very unlike another case in the past, where we were of the same opinion. There are just too many "purely coincidental?!" similarities and other observations. Did you know that some weeks before Strelka was published, a poster on that same russian forum posted he had decompiled and analysed Rybka's code, and explained several "Rybka secrets" he claimed to have found?

http://kasparovchess.crestbook.com/view ... hp?id=1490

So far, we have one or two "expert" opinions who say it's original code, but they did NOT acknowledge that this code is different from Rybka's sources, or how much different. The strong similarities which have been found, are still to be explained.

This circus is going to continue, because the community, in it's majority, lacks a sense of realism. You know the popular saying, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quaks like a duck...

And yet it's a goose and not a duck.

[Guetti]

And yet it's a goose and not a duck.

How do you know it's a goose?
It could also be a specially cultured Connemara Highland duck!

[Dann Corbit]

And yet it's a goose and not a duck.

How do you know it's a goose?
It could also be a specially cultured Connemara Highland duck!

In this case I have done the dissection (read: 'they sent me the source code'). There may be a duck feather stuck to it here and there, but with this bird we can make pate de fois gras.

[tiger]

There is an interesting interview with Osipov in Russian

It was already been here. Please keep in view that this interview was given prior to the "big cloning flame".

"What about to open my code to all I want to do it. And probably I will do it. Although I don't want to hurry with it and first consider all consequences of it."

Finally I was involved as expert to confirm that Strelka is not a clone. It was after finishing of this interview. After my announcement that Strelka is not a clone, a lot of people in community stated that they don't trust both me and Osipov. After big flame in this forum and also at kasparovchess Osipov was really depressed. I offered him to show his sources to western experts. He said: "you can do with my sources everything what you want. I don't have a desire to continue my work". Also he said that he already have such a negative expirience with a people comminity and it looks that this is a repetition of this annoying thing.
I tried to change his mind about this story. We will meet again at this week to discuss a further work. I hope everything will be ok and he will continue his work, but you must keep in view that a lot of things was changed since that interview.

Poor pussycat.

Now that you seem to put yourself in the position of psychological coaching him, maybe you should prepare him to the reality of computer chess?

I mean, you know there are people out there who have written programs that could actually beat his, you know. Wow, that hurts!

And yet this is nothing compared to the brutality of the chess forums.

I hope this will not depress him too much and exhaust his interest in alpha-beta.

We would miss him so-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o much.

But thank god you are here to protect him from the outside world, as he seems to be too weak at this time to post here directly. Don't forget to keep an eye on his perfusion.


// Christophe

[Dann Corbit]

I believe it was Dr. Hyatt who said (paraphrasing here...):
In order to successfully post to the internet, it is first necessary to grow a two inch thick skin.

[Leto]

There is an interesting interview with Osipov in Russian

It was already been here. Please keep in view that this interview was given prior to the "big cloning flame".

"What about to open my code to all I want to do it. And probably I will do it. Although I don't want to hurry with it and first consider all consequences of it."

Finally I was involved as expert to confirm that Strelka is not a clone. It was after finishing of this interview. After my announcement that Strelka is not a clone, a lot of people in community stated that they don't trust both me and Osipov. After big flame in this forum and also at kasparovchess Osipov was really depressed. I offered him to show his sources to western experts. He said: "you can do with my sources everything what you want. I don't have a desire to continue my work". Also he said that he already have such a negative expirience with a people comminity and it looks that this is a repetition of this annoying thing.
I tried to change his mind about this story. We will meet again at this week to discuss a further work. I hope everything will be ok and he will continue his work, but you must keep in view that a lot of things was changed since that interview.

Poor pussycat.

Now that you seem to put yourself in the position of psychological coaching him, maybe you should prepare him to the reality of computer chess?

I mean, you know there are people out there who have written programs that could actually beat his, you know. Wow, that hurts!

And yet this is nothing compared to the brutality of the chess forums.

I hope this will not depress him too much and exhaust his interest in alpha-beta.

We would miss him so-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o much.

But thank god you are here to protect him from the outside world, as he seems to be too weak at this time to post here directly. Don't forget to keep an eye on his perfusion.


// Christophe

You're behaving like a horrible person. The first to start this unjustified accusation against Strelka of cloning, and yet after it has been proven that it was not a clone you have chosen not to apologise, and instead you continue your personal attacks against the engine's author.