Minimalist Tablebases

[bedouin]

Hi,

I'd like to have a set of minimalist tablebases. The 1.2 GB or similar hosted on ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/TB/3-4-5/ is a bit too large while the 4-men tablebases (30Mb download from Arena site) might be too small. Is there a way between so that I can have tablebases around 300 Mb like the 330 Mb bitbases? I don't use any program that uses EGBB so that is not an option.

Any tips?

[smirobth]

You don't way what your goals are for using tablebases. If it is to increase the strength of a program you are using it probably doesn't matter much what you do, since there is no compelling evidence that tablebase usage increases the rating of chess engines much. The "perfect" knowledge of tablebases is offset by the enormously slower search times.

If you are analyzing late stage endgames, then it will depend on which ending(s). Rook and pawn endings are common, so you probably will want KRPKR. KQPKQ might be another good one, as might KPPKP. After those 3 I'm not sure which others.

Why such a limited amount of space? 1GB is tiny.

[Dirt]

...
If you are analyzing late stage endgames, then it will depend on which ending(s). Rook and pawn endings are common, so you probably will want KRPKR. KQPKQ might be another good one, as might KPPKP. After those 3 I'm not sure which others.

Having tablebases with pawns can lead to errors when the pawns can promote into missing tablebases. This should be rare when you include the ones you mention, but it is something to keep in mind.

Why such a limited amount of space? 1GB is tiny.

They take up 7 GB on my system, which I still think is reasonable. I assume he misspoke. Maybe he's on dialup?

[smirobth]

Why such a limited amount of space? 1GB is tiny.

They take up 7 GB on my system, which I still think is reasonable. I assume he misspoke. Maybe he's on dialup?

Yes, 7 GB on my system too. I don't think he misspoke though, since he is asking about a minimalist subset. Also the dial up problem could be solved by ordering the 3-4-5 man endgame turbo or some other such DVD source for the files.

You make a good point about errors being caused by not having a complete set, but that seems to have been fixed in most newer engines. It could be a big problem with many older engines though. The reason I mentioned the endings with pawns is that pawn-less endings are so much rarer than endings with pawns that I just think the ones with pawns are more useful ... as long as it doesn't cause quirky engine problems.

[bedouin]

I have the 3-4-5 Tablebases on a main computer (about 7.05 GB not 1.2 GB) and the 4 man tablebases (a mere 30Mb) on a laptop. As I carry the laptop about I wanted some more functionality and wondered if there was an improvement in the tablebases situation (shredderbases or EGBB are supposed to be smaller than Nalimov's).

I thought there was the possibility of 4 man and selected 5 man TB's available for download as a smaller download than the 7.1 GBs or whatever ideas some of you could put across.

[smirobth]

I have the 3-4-5 Tablebases on a main computer (about 7.05 GB not 1.2 GB) and the 4 man tablebases (a mere 30Mb) on a laptop. As I carry the laptop about I wanted some more functionality and wondered if there was an improvement in the tablebases situation (shredderbases or EGBB are supposed to be smaller than Nalimov's).

I thought there was the possibility of 4 man and selected 5 man TB's available for download as a smaller download than the 7.1 GBs or whatever ideas some of you could put across.

Shredderbases or other EGBB are only an option with a couple of specific programs. If your laptop has a USB port you might want to consider getting a fast 8 GB USB 2.0 flash drive. You could fit all the 3-4-5 man on there and they can be had for a little under $100.

Putting tablebases on a laptop hard drive, many of which are even slower than desktop hard drives, likely would result in no increase in engine strength.

[bedouin]

The ideal solution would be for them to find a way to make Nalimov TBs as small as EGBB or Shredderbases. TBs are not that critical for me as I don't have engine matches on the laptop or play like the GM who drew against Arno in the freestyle because he didn't have TBs (his knights wandered aimlessly for 50 moves when Arno's TB's indicated a win).