this really is the final word on the strelka issue

[ozziejoe]

it seems that all the engine experts and all the engine's men, can not put strelka back together again?


ok, lets not talk about the legal side of things, since this seems to be going nowhere, and even the best lawyers can disagree on an issue for decades.

First conclusion: there will be no agreement on what strelka is ( a clone, a derivitive, not a clone)

Second, Let's talk pragmatics. Does an engine help the practical player to analyze.

As far as I can tell, strelka is totally redundant with a crappy version of rybka.

And for those of you that think rybka is "just" a derivitive of fruit....Have you watched the two play a game of chess? They are so different, in some positions, as to seem to come from another planet.


Rybka's playing style is distinct from every other engine, so much so that it is easy to spot an imitator (strelka). It has enough original programing that it beats fruit by what, 200 elo points. I can't believe people are still saying "rybka is *just* a derivitive of fruit" . Maybe these people should show the world how easy it is to do what vas did, and create a fruit derivitive that is as strong as , say, rybka beta 1.1.

when it comes to the practical decision (e.g., what engine do you use first in correspondance analysis), the debate is resolved with no problems: Rybka.

When strelka starts to play a bit more originally, i think many of us will become more excited.

Until then, i think it is ok to say, Vas has revolutionized computer chess. Like it or not, he is destroying all your engines (except maybe mp zappa and hiarcs).

and I hope one of you catch him soon!

best
Joseph

[Michael Sherwin]

I really can not keep doing this. I have work to do. This is not benifiting me at all. I was just trying to help get to the legal and ethical truth of the matter. I think that my new friends and I have made more progress in the last day than has been made in a long time. Even if the issues are not completely cleared up, the computer chess users and the tournament organizers can now decide for themselves whether or not they wish to use/include Strelka 1.8 in their work.

It looks that you have been able to decide for yourself!

I am not claiming that I had anything to do with that in your case though!

[Terry McCracken]

I really can not keep doing this. I have work to do. This is not benifiting me at all. I was just trying to help get to the legal and ethical truth of the matter. I think that my new friends and I have made more progress in the last day than has been made in a long time. Even if the issues are not completely cleared up, the computer chess users and the tournament organizers can now decide for themselves whether or not they wish to use/include Strelka 1.8 in their work.

It looks that you have been able to decide for yourself!

I am not claiming that I had anything to do with that in your case though!

I so hoped it was going to be the final word.

[Michael Sherwin]

I really can not keep doing this. I have work to do. This is not benifiting me at all. I was just trying to help get to the legal and ethical truth of the matter. I think that my new friends and I have made more progress in the last day than has been made in a long time. Even if the issues are not completely cleared up, the computer chess users and the tournament organizers can now decide for themselves whether or not they wish to use/include Strelka 1.8 in their work.

It looks that you have been able to decide for yourself!

I am not claiming that I had anything to do with that in your case though!

I so hoped it was going to be the final word.

For me it is as I have work to do and I am clicking on 'stop watching this topic' for all watched topics.

[Terry McCracken]

I really can not keep doing this. I have work to do. This is not benifiting me at all. I was just trying to help get to the legal and ethical truth of the matter. I think that my new friends and I have made more progress in the last day than has been made in a long time. Even if the issues are not completely cleared up, the computer chess users and the tournament organizers can now decide for themselves whether or not they wish to use/include Strelka 1.8 in their work.

It looks that you have been able to decide for yourself!

I am not claiming that I had anything to do with that in your case though!

I so hoped it was going to be the final word.

For me it is as I have work to do and I am clicking on 'stop watching this topic' for all watched topics.

Good...You won't notice this post then

[Michael Sherwin]

I really can not keep doing this. I have work to do. This is not benifiting me at all. I was just trying to help get to the legal and ethical truth of the matter. I think that my new friends and I have made more progress in the last day than has been made in a long time. Even if the issues are not completely cleared up, the computer chess users and the tournament organizers can now decide for themselves whether or not they wish to use/include Strelka 1.8 in their work.

It looks that you have been able to decide for yourself!

I am not claiming that I had anything to do with that in your case though!

I so hoped it was going to be the final word.

For me it is as I have work to do and I am clicking on 'stop watching this topic' for all watched topics.

Good...You won't notice this post then

Nope! Absolutly not! What post?

[Terry McCracken]

I really can not keep doing this. I have work to do. This is not benifiting me at all. I was just trying to help get to the legal and ethical truth of the matter. I think that my new friends and I have made more progress in the last day than has been made in a long time. Even if the issues are not completely cleared up, the computer chess users and the tournament organizers can now decide for themselves whether or not they wish to use/include Strelka 1.8 in their work.

It looks that you have been able to decide for yourself!

I am not claiming that I had anything to do with that in your case though!

I so hoped it was going to be the final word.

For me it is as I have work to do and I am clicking on 'stop watching this topic' for all watched topics.

Good...You won't notice this post then

Nope! Absolutly not! What post?

Exactly!

[gerold]

it seems that all the engine experts and all the engine's men, can not put strelka back together again?


ok, lets not talk about the legal side of things, since this seems to be going nowhere, and even the best lawyers can disagree on an issue for decades.

First conclusion: there will be no agreement on what strelka is ( a clone, a derivitive, not a clone)

Second, Let's talk pragmatics. Does an engine help the practical player to analyze.

As far as I can tell, strelka is totally redundant with a crappy version of rybka.

It doesn't play very well in the end game. The style seems to be
about like toga 1.2. Its plays more like Toga than Rybka.

I don't think he reversed engineered anything.

And for those of you that think rybka is "just" a derivitive of fruit....Have you watched the two play a game of chess? They are so different, in some positions, as to seem to come from another planet.


Rybka's playing style is distinct from every other engine, so much so that it is easy to spot an imitator (strelka). It has enough original programing that it beats fruit by what, 200 elo points. I can't believe people are still saying "rybka is *just* a derivitive of fruit" . Maybe these people should show the world how easy it is to do what vas did, and create a fruit derivitive that is as strong as , say, rybka beta 1.1.

when it comes to the practical decision (e.g., what engine do you use first in correspondance analysis), the debate is resolved with no problems: Rybka.

When strelka starts to play a bit more originally, i think many of us will become more excited.

Until then, i think it is ok to say, Vas has revolutionized computer chess. Like it or not, he is destroying all your engines (except maybe mp zappa and hiarcs).

and I hope one of you catch him soon!

best
Joseph