Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

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Graham Banks
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Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by Graham Banks »

Posted by Larry Kaufman in the Rybka forum:
http://www.rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybka ... id=1715#fp
In response to the clear preference of voters in a poll on this topic, we have decided that the upcoming pawn handicap match with GM Joel Benjamin shall feature alternating colors, as well as a slower time control and larger increment! By alternating colors, we have removed the objection that this is not a full "pawn handicap" match. The time limit was chosen by Benjamin, who felt that it was about optimum for him given the two round a day format. Perhaps we are being too generous this time, Joel is confident that he won't lose the match and we're prepared for a possible match loss, but will do our best to win! Here are the terms:
1. Time Limit: One hour per side, 30" increment.
2. Eight games, two per day Aug. 6 thru Aug. 9.
3. Schedule: 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. each day (Eastern time). Match location: my home in Potomac, Maryland.
4. In each game, Rybka removes a different one of the eight pawns at the start.
5. Colors: In the four games in which Rybka removes a rook's pawn or a bishop's pawn, Rybka plays Black. In the other four games, Rybka plays White. The first game will be with "d" or "e" pawn removed (chosen by lot). If the first game is with "d" removed, the order shall be d,c,b,a, e,f g,h; if "e" is first, then the order is e,f,g,h,d,c,b,a, thus insuring alternation of colors.
6. This is a "friendly" match. This means that neither side will attempt to gain points or advantages by non-chess means. Rybka will stop Joel's clock on request for short restroom/beverage breaks, and Rybka may be rebooted if necessary due to "crash" or "freezing", with the clock restored to its time at the moment of the incident as closely as possible. Any operator errors may be corrected when discovered, with the times restored as closely as practical.
7. Joel's time is governed by his physical clock, whereas Rybka's time is governed by her displayed computer clock, so operator delay will not penalyze either side. It is understood that the operator will be broadcasting the games, and this may cause some delays.
8. Financial terms: $200 per point scored by Joel, $200 bonus for a drawn match, $600 bonus for a won match, and $150 to offset train fare.
9. The operator has the right to offer and/or accept draws, either with or without consultation with others, but will be primarily governed by Rybka's evaluation.
10. Rybka will run on a "Quadcore" computer, and the version will be a non-public one, which may contain a small "opening book" for pawn handicap.

Joel Benjamin has been three times US Champion, six times World Open champion or co-champion, three times U.S. Open Champion or co-champion, and has played on the U.S. Olympic Team in six Olympiads and two World Team Championships, and also in one Interzonal. More to the point, he was the chess consultant for Deep Blue, having earned the job by defeating it 2-0 in a formal match in 1995. He is writing a book about his chess career called "American Grandmaster" due to be published by "Everyman" this December.

Discussion: Although Joel is rated about fifty points below Ehlvest, his experience with Deep Blue may compensate, and he is likely to prepare much more than Ehlvest did, since Ehlvest plays tournaments virtually non-stop. By having Rybka play Black in the two edge pawn games, we are insuring that Joel will be at a substantial advantage in every game, and in the case of the f7 handicap, we will be giving the traditional "pawn and move" handicap, known to be very difficult for Black as normal development is difficult due to the weakened king's position. I would say that this match will be the most difficult challenge Rybka has yet to undertake.
PauloSoare
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Re: Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by PauloSoare »

It´s strange? I don´t know, but I don´t like pawn odds.
For me it´s not chess.

Paulo Soares
Steve B

Re: Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by Steve B »

thanks Graham

well i am certainly happy to read that Gm Benjamin will be playing this match although i must say that the pawn odds terms just keep getting goofier and goofier
i am not sure why Kaufman insists on odds like this unless of course that no human Gm's will play unless there are these odds(might have been true of Ehlvest but i do not think Benjamin would insist on these odds)

i am stunned at the low prize fund though
the MOST GM Benjamin can win is $2200
i would have expected at least the balance left over from the $10,000 fund which was posted for the second Ehlvest match.
the secret 5 Rybka Admirers that put up that prize fund did not have to pay out the entire fund due to the fact that Ehlvest lost so there should have been ample money left over from that fund
i think Ehlvest walked away with only $1500 plus $600 for expenses
i cant imagine that the Secret 5 withdrew the fund after the last match
so in effect the most Benjamin can win is almost the same as the losing pize to Ehlvest
rather odd i think?

all in all i have to applaud Team Rybka

they heard our complaints here about wheeling out Ehlvest for a second time and they saw our polls and they responded in kind

Well Done Team Rybka


The CCC...The Premiere Site On the Net For Computer Chess Regards
Steve
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M ANSARI
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Re: Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by M ANSARI »

I agree ... this pawn odds thing is not interesting at all. But I can understand how some people might like it ... just like many people like FRC Chess. Somehow it just does not feel like real chess.
Dirt
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Re: Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by Dirt »

Steve B wrote:i am stunned at the low prize fund though
Just speculating, but perhaps Joel was offered the same prize fund as Jaan with the same conditions, but preferred getting the larger handicap for a smaller prize fund.
Steve B

Re: Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by Steve B »

Dirt wrote:
Steve B wrote:i am stunned at the low prize fund though
Just speculating, but perhaps Joel was offered the same prize fund as Jaan with the same conditions, but preferred getting the larger handicap for a smaller prize fund.
of course this is very possible

i will say here and now

i would add $1500 to the pot to see Joel play with less favorable odds
an appearance fee if you will.. not dependent upon performance
i would pay the money to Kaufman..no strings attached and would want no say in the match details,terms or arrangements
...other then the removal of pawn odds or something close to it

Best Regards
Steve
rjand
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Re: Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by rjand »

Steve B wrote:
Dirt wrote:
Steve B wrote: i will say here and now

i would add $1500 to the pot to see Joel play with less favorable odds
an appearance fee if you will.. not dependent upon performance
i would pay the money to Kaufman..no strings attached and would want no say in the match details,terms or arrangements
...other then the removal of pawn odds or something close to it

Best Regards
Steve

Wow Steve thats really generous! Tell you what... For only $500.00 I'll let you watch Rybka kick the crap outta me straight up!
Should I get my board out?
:wink:

My Best,
Rick
Steve B

Re: Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by Steve B »

rjand wrote:
Steve B wrote:
Dirt wrote:
Steve B wrote: i will say here and now

i would add $1500 to the pot to see Joel play with less favorable odds
an appearance fee if you will.. not dependent upon performance
i would pay the money to Kaufman..no strings attached and would want no say in the match details,terms or arrangements
...other then the removal of pawn odds or something close to it

Best Regards
Steve

Wow Steve thats really generous! Tell you what... For only $500.00 I'll let you watch Rybka kick the crap outta me straight up!
Should I get my board out?
:wink:

My Best,
Rick
:P


only if your rated better then 2500 Elo Rick
if so..why then..

Your On Regards
Steve
rjand
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:56 pm
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by rjand »

Steve B wrote:
rjand wrote:
Steve B wrote:
Dirt wrote:
Steve B wrote: i will say here and now

i would add $1500 to the pot to see Joel play with less favorable odds
an appearance fee if you will.. not dependent upon performance
i would pay the money to Kaufman..no strings attached and would want no say in the match details,terms or arrangements
...other then the removal of pawn odds or something close to it

Best Regards
Steve

Wow Steve thats really generous! Tell you what... For only $500.00 I'll let you watch Rybka kick the crap outta me straight up!
Should I get my board out?
:wink:

My Best,
Rick
:P


only if your rated better then 2500 Elo Rick
if so..why then..

Your On Regards
Steve

That counts me out by a long shot. :oops: How about for $50.00?

Rick
Steve B

Re: Details about the Rybka v Joel Benjamin match

Post by Steve B »

Seriously though Rick

i wonder if we could make the match more interesting ...

i have a theory that Gm's of Benjamins strength and experience with chess engines can still play close to even with the White pieces but no longer as Black


so i am proposing the following for which i would add to the prize fund a Guaranteed appearance fee to GM Benjamin of $1500 (all other monetary conditions would remain the same)

The GM plays White 4 games against a fully loaded Rybka with full Noomen book and full table bases

with the Black pieces the GM receives DRAW ODDS(meaning that a draw is scored as a win for black)
book limited to 5 moves..full table bases

if the GM will not agree to that then another possibility is for the GM
as Black to receive pawns odds(and therefore no book ) table bases allowed

the pawn to be removed is randomly chosen at the start of each game by the drawing of lots(sealed letters a-h)
each successive pawns odds game will be chosen from the remaining pawns so as not to repeat the same pawn being removed



in my opinion these two alternatives would be far more interesting then the present match conditions

ALL other match terms and conditions as already stated would hold

as the match now stands Joel could go home with NOTHING(if he were not to score any points) and would only walk away with the $150 Train fare
certainly a GM of Benjamin's Stature is deserving of something better then that

under my proposal he receives a Guaranteed appearance fee of $1500(which is only $700 less then the MAXIMUM he could win as it stands now)and he still has the chance to win the $2200

of course these two proposals are not straight up ..mano y mano contests with no odds
but i fear that the GM would not even consider to play on even terms and i doubt he could win such a match(although he could probably score some points)
i think the "draw odds" proposal is not so onerous and it does not alter the normal play of the game in any way as does material odds
hopefully he would agree to DRAW odds and not pawn odds with the black pieces

i would send the money by Paypal to Kaufman or the Rybka Paypal site(to be turned over to Kaufman) immediately as soon as i am contacted by either Kaufman or Rajlich so that they had the money in their hands well in advance of even mentioning the proposal to the GM
if he agrees the money is paid upon his appearance at Kaufmans home on the scheduled start day of the match..if he does not the money is returned to me

Best Regards
Steve