A nice little test position.........

[Christopher Conkie]

[d]6k1/6pp/1p6/1p6/2p3B1/P2pr1P1/P6P/1R1K4 b - - 1 35

c3????

Nah.....Re4 might just hold a draw.

See what you think.



Christopher

[bob]

[d]6k1/6pp/1p6/1p6/2p3B1/P2pr1P1/P6P/1R1K4 b - - 1 35

c3????

Nah.....Re4 might just hold a draw.

See what you think.



Christopher

crafty likes Re4 after 45 secs on my laptop. Thinks white is a bit better, but not nearly as far ahead as if it tries c3...

[Eelco de Groot]

No problems for Fruit 2.3.1 Mandarin:

6k1/6pp/1p6/1p6/2p3B1/P2pr1P1/P6P/1R1K4 b - -

Engine: Fruit 2.3.1 Mandarin (256 MB)
by Fabien Letouzey, France


9.00 0:00 -0.54 1...c3 2.Rb3 c2+ 3.Kd2 Re4 4.Bf3 Re1
5.Rc3 Rf1 6.Bg4 Kf7 7.Rc6 Ke7 8.Rc7+ Kd6 (97.148)

10.00 0:00 -0.54 1...c3 2.Rb3 c2+ 3.Kd2 Re4 4.Bf3 Re1
5.Rc3 Rf1 6.Bg4 Kf7 7.Rc6 Ke7 8.Rc7+ Kd6 (165.503)

11.00 0:00 -0.54 1...c3 2.Rb3 c2+ 3.Kd2 Re4 4.Bf3 Re1
5.Rc3 Rf1 6.Bg4 Kf7 7.Rc6 Ke7 8.h4 Ke8
9.Rc8+ Ke7 10.Rc7+ Kd6 (278.439)

11.00 0:00 -0.38 1...Re4 2.h3 Re3 3.Rxb5 c3 4.Rb3 c2+
5.Kd2 Rxg3 6.Rc3 Rg1 7.Rc7 Rf1 8.h4 Kf8 (517.984)

12.00 0:00 -0.27 1...Re4 2.h3 Re3 3.Kd2 Rxg3 4.Rxb5 Rg2+
5.Kc3 Rc2+ 6.Kd4 d2 7.Rxb6 c3 8.Rb3 Rc1
9.Rxc3 d1Q+ 10.Bxd1 Rxd1+ 11.Rd3 (904.284)

13.00 0:01 -0.27 1...Re4 2.h3 Re3 3.Kd2 Rxg3 4.Rxb5 Rg2+
5.Kc3 Rc2+ 6.Kd4 d2 7.Rxb6 Rc1 8.Rc6 c3
9.Rxc3 d1Q+ 10.Bxd1 Rxd1+ 11.Rd3 (1.186.208) 1000

14.01 0:01 -0.33 1...Re4 2.h3 Re3 3.Kd2 Rxg3 4.Rxb5 Rg2+
5.Kc3 Rc2+ 6.Kd4 d2 7.Rxb6 Rc1 8.Rc6 c3
9.Rxc3 d1Q+ 10.Bxd1 Rxd1+ 11.Rd3 Rf1
12.a4 Rf4+ 13.Ke5 Rxa4 (1.947.747) 994 TB:2

15.01 0:04 -0.27 1...Re4 2.h3 Re3 3.Kd2 Rxg3 4.Rxb5 Rg2+
5.Kc3 Rc2+ 6.Kd4 d2 7.Rxb6 Rc1
8.Rb8+ Kf7 9.Rb7+ Kf6 10.a4 c3
11.Kd3 Rg1 12.Kxc3 Rxg4 13.Kxd2 Rxa4 (4.190.344) 1007 TB:78

16.01 0:08 -0.26 1...Re4 2.h3 Re3 3.Kd2 Rxg3 4.Rxb5 Rg2+
5.Kc3 Rc2+ 6.Kd4 d2 7.Rxb6 Rc1 8.Rc6 d1Q+
9.Bxd1 Rxd1+ 10.Kxc4 Rh1 11.a4 Rxh3
12.a5 Rh2 13.a6 Rxa2 14.Rc8+ Kf7 (8.092.283) 1007 TB:219

17.01 0:25 -0.60 1...Re4 2.Bc8 Re2 3.Rc1 Rxa2 4.Ba6 Rb2
5.a4 bxa4 6.Bxc4+ Kf8 7.h4 Rg2
8.Bxd3 Rxg3 9.Bxh7 g6 10.Rc8+ Ke7
11.Bg8 b5 12.Rc7+ Kd6 (26.904.036) 1054 TB:267

18.01 0:47 -0.48 1...Re4 2.Bc8 Re2 3.Rc1 Rxa2 4.Ba6 Rb2
5.a4 bxa4 6.Bxc4+ Kf8 7.h4 Rg2
8.Bxd3 Rxg3 9.Rc8+ Ke7 10.Bxh7 g6
11.Bg8 b5 12.Kd2 Rg2+ 13.Kc3 Rf2 (51.354.640) 1083 TB:273

19.01 1:07 -0.52 1...Re4 2.Bc8 Re2 3.Rc1 Rxa2 4.Ba6 Rb2
5.a4 bxa4 6.Bxc4+ Kf8 7.h4 Rg2
8.Bxd3 Rxg3 9.Rc8+ Ke7 10.Bxh7 g6
11.Bg8 b5 12.Kd2 Rg2+ 13.Ke3 Rg3+
14.Kf4 Rd3 (73.547.881) 1088 TB:274

20.01 2:38 -0.69 1...Re4 2.Bc8 Re5 3.Rc1 Rc5 4.Be6+ Kf8
5.Kd2 Ke7 6.Re1 Kd6 7.Bg4 h5 8.Bf3 Rf5
9.Re3 Rf7 10.h3 Rf8 11.Kc3 Rf5 12.a4 bxa4
13.Kxc4 (171.098.055) 1081 TB:293

21.01 4:36 -0.71 1...Re4 2.Bc8 Re5 3.Rc1 Rc5 4.Be6+ Kf8
5.Kd2 Ke7 6.Bg8 Kd6 7.Bxh7 Rh5
8.Bxd3 cxd3 9.h4 g5 10.Rh1 gxh4
11.gxh4 Kc5 12.Kxd3 Kd6 13.Ke3 Ke6
14.Ke4 Re5+ (297.852.235) 1078 TB:322

best move: Re3-e4 time: 8:56.782 min n/s: 1.078.706 CPU 100.0% n/s(1CPU): 1.078.706 nodes: 578.810.000 TB: 451

Hiarcs 11.2 needs a few seconds more on Athlon 2009 MHz:

6k1/6pp/1p6/1p6/2p3B1/P2pr1P1/P6P/1R1K4 b - -

Engine: HIARCS 11.2 SP Default (256 MB)
by Mark John Uniacke

11/27 0:00 -0.38 1...c3 2.Rb3 Re4 3.Rxc3 Rxg4 4.Rxd3 Kf7
5.Kd2 Ke6 6.h3 (284.220) 518

11/27 0:00 -0.24 1...c3 2.Rb3 c2+ 3.Kd2 Re1 4.Rc3 Rf1
5.Rc7 Ra1 6.h3 Kf8 7.Bh5 g6 8.Bg4 h5 (358.371) 520

12/28 0:01 -0.33 1...c3 2.Rb3 c2+ 3.Kd2 Re1 4.Rc3 Rf1
5.Rc7 Ra1 6.Bf3 Kf8 7.Bh5 g6 8.Bf3 g5 (648.208) 518

13/31 0:02 -0.21 1...c3 2.Rb3 c2+ 3.Kd2 Re1 4.Rc3 Ra1
5.Rc7 Kf8 6.Bh5 g6 7.Bg4 h5 8.Bf3 Rxa2
9.Kxd3 (1.312.234) 515

14/32 0:05 -0.07 1...c3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rb1 Re4 4.Bf3 Re3
5.Bd5+ Kf8 6.Kc2 Ke7 7.Rxb5 Re1
8.Bf3 Rc1+ 9.Kd3 g6 10.Rxb6 (2.564.862) 512

15/32 0:07 -0.32-- 1...c3 (4.107.943) 520

15/32 0:09 -0.89 1...c3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rb1 Re4 4.h3 Re3
5.Kc2 Rxg3 6.Rxb5 h5 7.Rxh5 Rg1
8.Bd1 Rg3 9.Rb5 Rxh3 (5.178.643) 527

15/32 0:17 -0.88 1...Re4 (8.919.640) 502

15/33 0:21 -0.74 1...Re4 2.Bd7 Re3 3.Kd2 Re2+ 4.Kc3 Rc2+
5.Kd4 d2 6.Be6+ Kf8 7.Bg4 g6 8.Rxb5 Rc1
9.Rxb6 c3 10.Rb8+ Kg7 11.Rb7+ Kh6 (11.002.317) 502

16/35 0:33 -0.50 1...Re4 2.h3 h5 3.Bxh5 Re5 4.Bg4 c3
5.Rc1 Rc5 6.Be6+ Kf8 7.g4 g6 8.h4 Ke7
9.Bb3 Kf6 (16.715.821) 496

17/35 0:47 -0.60 1...Re4 2.h3 h5 3.Bxh5 Re5 4.g4 Kh7
5.Bf7 c3 6.Rc1 Rc5 7.h4 g6 8.Bb3 Kg7
9.a4 bxa4 10.Bxa4 (23.760.738) 496

18/39 1:34 -0.71 1...Re4 2.h3 Re3 3.Kd2 Rxg3 4.Rxb5 Rg2+
5.Kc3 Rc2+ 6.Kd4 d2 7.Rxb6 Rc1 8.a4 c3
9.Kd3 g6 10.Rc6 d1Q+ 11.Bxd1 Rxd1+
12.Kc2 Rd2+ 13.Kxc3 Rxa2 14.Kb3 (46.862.298) 497 TB:1

best move: Re3-e4 time: 1:51.562 min n/s: 498.636 nodes: 55.551.623 TB: 1


With slightly different settings Hiarcs11.2 does not find 2... Re3 yet, so I'm not yet very satisfied with these:


6k1/6pp/1p6/1p6/2p3B1/P2pr1P1/P6P/1R1K4 b - -

Engine: HIARCS 11.2 [7,12,7] (256 MB)
by Mark John Uniacke

11/26 0:00 -0.32 1...c3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rb1 Re4 4.Bf3 Re3
5.Bd5+ Kh8 6.Kc2 Re1 7.h3 Re3 (287.638) 524

11/26 0:00 -0.29 1...c3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rb1 Re4 4.h3 Re1+
5.Kc2 g6 6.Rxb5 Rc1+ 7.Kd3 h5 8.Bf3 Rf1
9.Kxc3 Rxf3+ 10.Kxd2 Rxa3 (345.570) 525

12/29 0:01 -0.52 1...c3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rb1 Re4 4.h3 Re3
5.Kc2 Rxg3 6.Rxb5 Re3 7.Rxb6 (677.608) 522

13/30 0:02 -0.27++ 1...c3 (1.095.620) 511

13/30 0:02 -0.27 1...c3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rb1 Re4 4.h3 Re3
5.Kc2 Rxg3 6.Rxb5 Rg1 7.Bd1 (1.213.599) 517

14/30 0:04 -0.52-- 1...c3 (2.204.684) 518

14/30 0:04 -0.52 1...c3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rb1 Re4 4.h3 Re3
5.Kc2 Rxg3 6.Rxb5 Rg1 7.Bd1 Rh1
8.Rb3 Rxh3 9.Rxc3 (2.292.190) 518

15/33 0:08 -0.77-- 1...c3 (4.410.986) 518

15/33 0:09 -0.89 1...c3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rb1 Re4 4.h3 Re3
5.Kc2 Rxg3 6.Rxb5 h5 7.Rxh5 Rg1
8.Bd1 Rg3 9.Rb5 Rxh3 (5.061.421) 530

15/33 0:14 -0.88 1...Re4 (7.696.192) 517

15/33 0:17 -0.82 1...Re4 2.Bd7 Re3 3.Kd2 Re2+ 4.Kc3 Rc2+
5.Kd4 d2 6.Be6+ Kf8 7.Bg4 Kf7 8.Rxb5 Rc1
9.Rxb6 c3 10.Kd3 h6 11.Bf3 (8.948.411) 515

16/34 0:27 -0.66 1...Re4 2.h3 h5 3.Bxh5 Re5 4.g4 Kh7
5.Bf7 g6 6.Rc1 Kg7 7.Bxc4 bxc4
8.Rxc4 Re3 9.Rc6 Rxh3 10.Rxb6 (14.208.088) 507

17/38 0:41 -0.60 1...Re4 2.h3 h5 3.Bxh5 Re5 4.g4 Kh7
5.Bf7 c3 6.Rc1 Rc5 7.h4 g6 8.Bb3 Kg7
9.a4 bxa4 10.Bxa4 (20.889.223) 504

18/38 1:07 -0.68 1...Re4 2.h3 h5 3.Bxh5 Re5 4.g4 Kh7
5.Bf7 c3 6.Rc1 Rc5 7.Be8 Kh6 8.Bxb5 d2
9.Rc2 Rxb5 10.Rxc3 Rb2 11.Rd3 Rxa2
12.Rxd2 (33.988.741) 501 TB:4

Eelco

[Jack Lad]

Hi Eelco

Is it possible for me to get a copy of Mandarin (and any others you have designed) please? - I assume it is free like Fruit and Toga.

[rightrook]

My old Fritz 8 ......finds......Re4 in just 3 seconds on my slow
Compaq Presario AMD 64 Athlon....

thanks.....good test......!

Robert

[rightrook]

This looks like a 16 ply test to me..

Fritz 5.32..... takes 16 ply.....and 2 min. and 40 seconds to find..Re4...



Ruffian 105...takes 60 sec.

Robert

[Eelco de Groot]

Hi Eelco

Is it possible for me to get a copy of Mandarin (and any others you have designed) please? - I assume it is free like Fruit and Toga.

Hi Jack,

Sure, but it is not a separate Fruit version, they are just settings for Fruit 2.3.1 and I can not really recommend them. No matter what I try, this version keeps producing strange moves like here:

[d]5rk1/1p5p/p1b2BpQ/4P3/7P/7P/qP3R1K/8 b - -


Nothing serious threatening but Fruit 2.3.1 Mandarin plays

36... Kf7 {?? After 69 seconds in a ten minute Blitz game.. 36... Qf7 is a bit more logical. Like it is thinking: "Yes I know this is a mate in eight for my opponent but I'm playing it anyway because I'm panicking" It is very human in this respect; it not only occasionally blunders but sometimes it even knows it makes a blunder move right after releasing the right piece on the wrong square, or the wrong piece on the right square!}
{ #8/13 69 Qxh7+ Ke6 Qe7+ Kd5 Qd6+ Ke4 Re2+ Kf5 e6 Qd5 Rf2+ Ke4 Qf4+ Kd3 Rd2#}
37. Qg7+ { #8/15 0 Ke6 Qe7+ Kd5 Qd6+ Kc4 Rf4+ Be4 Rxe4+ Kb3 Qb4+ Kc2 Qc3+} Ke6
{ #7/11 2 Qe7+ Kd5 Qd6+ Ke4 Re2+ Kf5 e6 Qxb2 Qc5+ Bd5 Qf2+ Bf3 Qxf3#}
{Score threshold reached} 1-0

I can't seem to make much improvements with these settings but I understood from Thorsten that there is already a Fruit 2.3.3a for some Betatesters available so there is still hope! Some of the Mandarin settings I posted here http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15612
Those first games were good but in later games Hiarcs 11 bounced back and I think Hiarcs 11 would win most longer matches against the Fruit Mandarin.

But my favourite Fruit version would be Fruit 05/11/03 for which I posted some settings here http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15580

The last Toga 1.3x4 settings that I tried and got good results against Deep Sjeng were Toga 1.3x4 Checkov II posted here http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13631
and Toga Blueberry 0.94a
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13395

Regards, Eelco