Gothic Vortex Copper

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rightrook
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:45 pm

Gothic Vortex Copper

Post by rightrook »

http://www.gothicchess.com/rules.html


I downloaded the FREE Gothic Vortex Copper program..

It plays a very strong game and Works great!

The only way I could win was to remove both black knights, the black Chancellor, and the black ArchBishop... :lol:

I was surprised to see that you can rearrange the pieces (at the beginning) and still save the game and then replay it later.

Whoever programed this did a great pieace of work!

Robert

Wow...that Chancellor ( A Rook plus Knight combined in one piece) plays one "wicked game of chess"...

He should be "outlawed".... :roll:
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Zach Wegner
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Location: Earth

Re: Gothic Vortex Copper

Post by Zach Wegner »

rightrook wrote:Whoever programed this did a great pieace of work!
Robert Hyatt, mostly.
GothicChessInventor

Re: Gothic Vortex Copper

Post by GothicChessInventor »

Actually, I wrote the evaluation function. The copper edition has much of its IQ disabled. The tournament version is much stronger.

I will be releasing a new version after the tournament, the "Silver" edition, which has much more intelligence than the present Copper version.
GothicChessInventor

Re: Gothic Vortex Copper

Post by GothicChessInventor »

Hello Robert,

Here's a game demonstrating a 28 move checkmate over the German program SMIRF:

http://www.gothicchess.com/javagames/db ... 1/game.htm

This is from the 2007 Gothic Chess Computer Championship, going on now. It wins by passively sacking a pawn, then actively tossing a Knight and a Queen aside, to mate with your favorite piece, the Chancellor, with the support of a Bishop.
rightrook
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Re: Gothic Vortex Copper

Post by rightrook »

Hey Ed....Congratulations on your new "invention"...!!


Yes, I have been watching some "auto games"...and the Chancelor
(Rook plus Knight) is very active in the end game and sure knows how to checkmate the eneny king... :lol:

In one game...it was the only piece that delievered the MATE..!!

:shock:

I will wait and order one of your new SILVER versions...if the price is OK..
Will your company be able to accept credeit cards or checks?
(right now, I do not have Paypal)

Thanks.

Robert
GothicChessInventor

Re: Gothic Vortex Copper

Post by GothicChessInventor »

rightrook wrote:Hey Ed....Congratulations on your new "invention"...!!


Yes, I have been watching some "auto games"...and the Chancelor
(Rook plus Knight) is very active in the end game and sure knows how to checkmate the eneny king... :lol:

In one game...it was the only piece that delievered the MATE..!!

:shock:

I will wait and order one of your new SILVER versions...if the price is OK..
Will your company be able to accept credeit cards or checks?
(right now, I do not have Paypal)

Thanks.

Robert
I was thinking about $10 for the Silver version which will also have the 4-piece tablebases, and an opening book with 30,000+ positions in it.

The opening book has many new "corrected" lines of play in it also, based on hundreds of Gothic Chess games.

By the way, we have many interesting games in our archives. For example, this "mess around" blitz game:

Image

and all of my games from a former online host:

http://www.gothicchess.com/javagames/br ... eaper.html

Some of these games are quite entertaining.
rightrook
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:45 pm

Re: Gothic Vortex Copper.....suggestion

Post by rightrook »

Thanks for the reply, Ed..

Just one suggestion for your next version of Gothic Chess..;

Why not make the Archbishop move like a Queen and Knight combined?


From the games I have seen so far, the "Bishop and Knight" piece does not seem to get into the game very well... :lol:

Just a suggestion... :D

thanks for the links...

I see you live near Phila. I am in South Jersey.... :D

Yes, i would order the Silver Edition when available..

Robert
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George Tsavdaris
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Re: Gothic Vortex Copper.....suggestion

Post by George Tsavdaris »

rightrook wrote:Thanks for the reply, Ed..

Just one suggestion for your next version of Gothic Chess..;

Why not make the Archbishop move like a Queen and Knight combined?

From the games I have seen so far, the "Bishop and Knight" piece does not seem to get into the game very well... :lol:
Obviously you haven't seen many games or your judgement is not good enough. :lol:
Archbishop is a very powerful piece and i believe it has almost the strength of a Chancellor and is very close to Queen too, all these in middlegame.
Generally differences become larger....

The piece you propose is called Amazon(Knight+Rook+Bishop) and it would create many imbalances in the game as also rather quick games(too much power).

Yes, i would order the Silver Edition when available..
Robert
If it's only $10 i would immediately buy it too!
Also if Ed imports it into Winboard_F then WOW! Great!
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
rightrook
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:45 pm

Re: Gothic Vortex Copper.....suggestion

Post by rightrook »

OK..thanks George..You are probably right...

We dont want too much power..that would indeed upset the "apple cart" so to speak... :lol:

regards

Robert

I tried to order the one for $30.00..but they said my order was rejected.....that the company was not accepting orders at this time..

Any reason why?

Maybe because I do not have a current Paypal account?

I wish they would take a credit card.

Thanks for your help..
Robert
GothicChessInventor

Re: Gothic Vortex Copper.....suggestion

Post by GothicChessInventor »

Regarding the Queen + Knight piece (amazon):

Sometimes having too much power is not a good thing. I experimented with an Amazon piece in the earlier days, i.e. before the year 2000. In my experience, it "attracted too much attention."

1. Because it was so strong, literally every piece on the board could attack it, and every piece would want to attack it, because winning it was tantamount to securing a large advantage.

2. Deploying the Amazon too early would therefore lead to collosal loss of tempi, almost always fatal even in the Amazon was not exchanged for inadequate material.

3. Deploying the Amazon too late would mean the other side's Amazon was "running rampant", scooping up material (usually many pawns.)

4. When deploying the Amazon "correctly", it would most often just end up trading itself for the opposing amazon!

So, after all of this experience, I found that games with Amazons were very "Amazon-centric." By that I mean they were the focus off most of the strategy and tactics of EVERY game. Either you tried to run down an Amazon developed prematurely, or you tried to time the development of your own Amazon so that it could win all kinds of material while your opponents' was misplaced/undeveloped, or you simply aimed to trade them off the board.

Then, once Amazons were off the board, there was this "empty" sensation. It is like going from racing on the Autobahn with a high performance sports car, to walking knee-deep in the ocean! A very abrupt change of pace!

In the end, we decided too much power was not a good thing.

The Archbishop and Chancellor pieces don't suffer from this distraction. Their own characteristics allow you to create long range strategy. Because of its solo-checkmating possibilities, the Archbishop is the deadliest piece in the opening. Just look how the Archbishop threats dismantled ChessV in only 27 moves in this game:

http://www.gothicchess.com/javagames/db ... 7/game.htm

Look particularly at 19. Qxh5!! were black can't even take the Queen with a Pawn since the threat is Ah6#!!

The Chancellor tends to be the dominant piece in the middlegame, althought it too can be used to accelerate the endgame. Here is how Vortex mated SMIRF in 28 moves by sacrifcing material and using the Chancellor:

http://www.gothicchess.com/javagames/db ... 1/game.htm

Note that a Chancellor and Bishop used in conjunction are a deadly combination, as the complete what is "missing" from each other. The Chancellor + Bishop is essentially the "Amazon" piece you spoke of earlier.

The Queen is the strongest of the 3 pieces in the endgame. While an Archbishop can be used somewhat early, the Chancellor and Queen are used like they are in chess. Put in play too early, and they can be attacked without mercy.