Slightly inferior position after leaving book

[Eelco de Groot]

[Event "8 Minutes/Game + 2 Seconds/Move"]
[Site "Engine Match"]
[Date "2007.11.25"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Belka 1.8.11"]
[Black "Glaurung 2.0.1 Mjolnir 001b"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 Bb4 5. Bg2 O-O 6. d4
Ne4 7. Bd2 Nxd2 8. Qxd2 exd4 9. Nxd4 Ne5 10. O-O Nxc4
11. Qd3 Ne5 12. Qb5 Bxc3 13. bxc3 d6 14. Bxb7 Rb8 15. Nc6
Nxc6 16. Qxc6 Bxb7 17. Qa4 Qe8 18. Rae1 Qxa4

[d]1r3rk1/pbp2ppp/3p4/8/q7/2P3P1/P3PP1P/4RRK1 w - -

And White was on his own, in probably the worst bookline ever..

Belka with its new timemangement realized the position was rather critical, I believe the poor thing used no less than three of its eight minutes for its first move but to no avail of course..

19. f3 Qxa2
20. Rf2 Ba6 0-1

[Event "8 Minutes/Game + 2 Seconds/Move"]
[Site "Engine Match"]
[Date "2007.11.25"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Glaurung 2.0.1 Mjolnir 001b"]
[Black "Belka 1.8.11"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 Bb4 5. Bg2 O-O 6. d4
Ne4 7. Bd2 Nxd2 8. Qxd2 exd4 9. Nxd4 Ne5 10. O-O Nxc4
11. Qd3 Ne5 12. Qb5 Bxc3 13. bxc3 d6 14. Bxb7 Rb8 15. Nc6
Nxc6 16. Qxc6 Bxb7 17. Qa4 Qe8 18. Rae1 Qxa4

[d]1r3rk1/pbp2ppp/3p4/8/q7/2P3P1/P3PP1P/4RRK1 w - -

Glaurung did it slightly differently, 19.h3 instead of 19.f3 and thinking much shorter about it but the effect was the same...

19. h3 Rfe8
20. f3 Qc4 0-1

[George Tsavdaris]

[Event "8 Minutes/Game + 2 Seconds/Move"]
[Site "Engine Match"]
[Date "2007.11.25"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Glaurung 2.0.1 Mjolnir 001b"]
[Black "Belka 1.8.11"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 Bb4 5. Bg2 O-O 6. d4
Ne4 7. Bd2 Nxd2 8. Qxd2 exd4 9. Nxd4 Ne5 10. O-O Nxc4
11. Qd3 Ne5 12. Qb5 Bxc3 13. bxc3 d6 14. Bxb7 Rb8 15. Nc6
Nxc6 16. Qxc6 Bxb7 17. Qa4 Qe8 18. Rae1 Qxa4

[d]1r3rk1/pbp2ppp/3p4/8/q7/2P3P1/P3PP1P/4RRK1 w - -

Glaurung did it slightly differently, 19.h3 instead of 19.f3 and thinking much shorter about it but the effect was the same...

19. h3 Rfe8
20. f3 Qc4 0-1[/quote]
Sorry but i don't get the point of all these....

What is the slightly inferior position after leaving the book? You mean the position after 18th move for black? This is not slightly inferior position but an immediate 0-1!

No point to run a match after 18th move. I bet Rybka-TSCP would end 0-1.
So what is the point of all these....?

[Eelco de Groot]

No point to run a match after 18th move. I bet Rybka-TSCP would end 0-1.
So what is the point of all these....?

My feeble attempt at Anglo-Saxon type humor George Some are probably better at it.

Eelco

[Nelson Hernandez]

No question about that line being a stinker. I see the source game in my database--an 18-move match between an unrated player (white) and a mediocre one (black) played last June. The unrated player has no other games in my database. Now the question is, in your database is this game shown as 1-0? If so, you ought to be rethinking things.

[Eelco de Groot]

No question about that line being a stinker. I see the source game in my database--an 18-move match between an unrated player (white) and a mediocre one (black) played last June. The unrated player has no other games in my database. Now the question is, in your database is this game shown as 1-0? If so, you ought to be rethinking things.

Hi Nelson,

I do not know but I think something got messed up when Harry converted his Rybka.ctg book to the Shredder format. The game or line with 6. d4 does not seem to be in the Chessbase version of Harry's otherwise very good book Rykka.bkt.

I think the whole line starting with 6. d4? can be savely removed, there are some useful moves with Black in the line after that, but a reasonable program can find them on its own, and several very weak White moves that White has to follow if the line is left unaltered. Harry Schnapp has not posted here in quite a while, I hope he is allright.

Regards, eelco

[Graham Banks]

Harry Schnapp has not posted here in quite a while, I hope he is allright.

Regards, eelco

Harry is fine.

Regards, Graham.

[Har]

No question about that line being a stinker. I see the source game in my database--an 18-move match between an unrated player (white) and a mediocre one (black) played last June. The unrated player has no other games in my database. Now the question is, in your database is this game shown as 1-0? If so, you ought to be rethinking things.

Hi Nelson,

I do not know but I think something got messed up when Harry converted his Rybka.ctg book to the Shredder format. The game or line with 6. d4 does not seem to be in the Chessbase version of Harry's otherwise very good book Rykka.bkt.

I think the whole line starting with 6. d4? can be savely removed, there are some useful moves with Black in the line after that, but a reasonable program can find them on its own, and several very weak White moves that White has to follow if the line is left unaltered. Harry Schnapp has not posted here in quite a while, I hope he is allright.

Regards, eelco

Hi Eelco,
My Rybka.bkt book not playing 1)c4.
If the opponent ( White) continue with the bad move 6)d4? then Black has the right answer in the book without thinking.
Best regards,
Harry

[Eelco de Groot]

No question about that line being a stinker. I see the source game in my database--an 18-move match between an unrated player (white) and a mediocre one (black) played last June. The unrated player has no other games in my database. Now the question is, in your database is this game shown as 1-0? If so, you ought to be rethinking things.

Hi Nelson,

I do not know but I think something got messed up when Harry converted his Rybka.ctg book to the Shredder format. The game or line with 6. d4 does not seem to be in the Chessbase version of Harry's otherwise very good book Rykka.bkt.

I think the whole line starting with 6. d4? can be savely removed, there are some useful moves with Black in the line after that, but a reasonable program can find them on its own, and several very weak White moves that White has to follow if the line is left unaltered. Harry Schnapp has not posted here in quite a while, I hope he is allright.

Regards, eelco

Hi Eelco,
My Rybka.bkt book not playing 1)c4.
If the opponent ( White) continue with the bad move 6)d4? then Black has the right answer in the book without thinking.
Best regards,
Harry

Hello Harry,

Very good to see you posting! Good that Graham managed to contact you? Last post I saw from you was on the old Schachwerkstatt Parsimony Forum I believe. There is not much traffic there now?

I have had much fun with your Rybka.bkt for Shredder, it is better than the big Shredder9.bkt in my opinion, at least in your tournament mode it is. And a lot of engines can use it, not just Rybka!

I don't really know if that is how it is supposed to be, but in my copy the book does play 1. c4 although with a very low frequency, 4 %. It has an 'a' label so it even is played in tournament mode. Your Chessbase .ctg version does not play 1. c4, as far as I can see in Chessbase Light.

Does this mean Harry there can be more bad lines hiding behind 1. c4 in Rybka.bkt? Or behind 1. b3 which has a 'b' label?

Best regards, Eelco

[Har]

No question about that line being a stinker. I see the source game in my database--an 18-move match between an unrated player (white) and a mediocre one (black) played last June. The unrated player has no other games in my database. Now the question is, in your database is this game shown as 1-0? If so, you ought to be rethinking things.

Hi Nelson,

I do not know but I think something got messed up when Harry converted his Rybka.ctg book to the Shredder format. The game or line with 6. d4 does not seem to be in the Chessbase version of Harry's otherwise very good book Rykka.bkt.

I think the whole line starting with 6. d4? can be savely removed, there are some useful moves with Black in the line after that, but a reasonable program can find them on its own, and several very weak White moves that White has to follow if the line is left unaltered. Harry Schnapp has not posted here in quite a while, I hope he is allright.

Regards, eelco

Hi Eelco,
My Rybka.bkt book not playing 1)c4.
If the opponent ( White) continue with the bad move 6)d4? then Black has the right answer in the book without thinking.
Best regards,
Harry

Hello Harry,

Very good to see you posting! Good that Graham managed to contact you? Last post I saw from you was on the old Schachwerkstatt Parsimony Forum I believe. There is not much traffic there now?

I have had much fun with your Rybka.bkt for Shredder, it is better than the big Shredder9.bkt in my opinion, at least in your tournament mode it is. And a lot of engines can use it, not just Rybka!

I don't really know if that is how it is supposed to be, but in my copy the book does play 1. c4 although with a very low frequency, 4 %. It has an 'a' label so it even is played in tournament mode. Your Chessbase .ctg version does not play 1. c4, as far as I can see in Chessbase Light.

Does this mean Harry there can be more bad lines hiding behind 1. c4 in Rybka.bkt? Or behind 1. b3 which has a 'b' label?

Best regards, Eelco

Hello Eelco,
Sincere thanks for your very kind words and your interest.
Rybka plays too passive in some variants with 1)c4 and 1)b3.
In "Prob" is 1)e4 with 91.3%, 1)d4 with 8.5% and the others with 0%.
I will be set up so that it remains also in tournament option.
The move 6)d4? exist in some WB engines with own book.Therefore
here as a counter for black. In my Chessbase.ctg version it is not
necessary.
Best regards,
Harry