[d]b4r2/2b5/P1p2rnk/2P1ppp1/1P1pP2p/5PPP/4Q3/5RRK w - - 0 34
This position arised in a correspondence game.
kind regards
Bernhard
Testposition from A. Nickel - J. van Oosterom
Moderator: Ras
-
BBauer
- Posts: 658
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:58 pm
-
Andrew
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:51 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Testposition from A. Nickel - J. van Oosterom
Does anyone still have Nickel's analysis from a few years back on
the game he played against various computers, at the time they were
given the names of different planets? It's probably on one of the
archive sites if anyone remembers the web address.
Andrew
the game he played against various computers, at the time they were
given the names of different planets? It's probably on one of the
archive sites if anyone remembers the web address.
Andrew
-
smirobth
- Posts: 2307
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:41 pm
- Location: Brownsville Texas USA
Re: Testposition from A. Nickel - J. van Oosterom
Nice position. f4 does seem to be crushing, and better than the move most programs want to play, Qg2. I wonder why programs have so much difficulty in this position. Perhaps Qg2 also wins, and that distracts them? Also programs seem to be enamoured with the idea of advancing the pawn to a7 (passed pawns must be pushed). However in this position the pawn is much better in its present location on a6.BBauer wrote:[d]b4r2/2b5/P1p2rnk/2P1ppp1/1P1pP2p/5PPP/4Q3/5RRK w - - 0 34
This position arised in a correspondence game.
kind regards
Bernhard
- Robin Smith
-
PauloSoare
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:30 am
- Location: Cabo Frio, Brasil
Re: Testposition from A. Nickel - J. van Oosterom
Interesting position. I have tested more than ten engines with
approximately 5 min and all played Qg2. The only that like f4
it was Deep Fritz 10, on a Quad6600, HT = 1024Kb.
I was curious to know what Fritz 11 play in this position.
New game
b4r2/2b5/P1p2rnk/2P1ppp1/1P1pP2p/5PPP/4Q3/5RRK w - - 0 1
Analysis by Deep Fritz 10:
1.gxh4
+- (2.46) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 227kN
1.gxh4 Nxh4
+- (2.18) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 842kN
1.gxh4 Nxh4 2.Qd2 Rg6
+- (2.18) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 862kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.18) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 1304kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.34) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 1348kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.65) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 1445kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.gxh4 Nxh4 3.Qd2 fxe4 4.fxe4 Rf3 5.Rxf3 Nxf3 6.Qa2 Kg7 7.Rd1 Rf8
+- (2.69) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 1552kN
1.Qg2 Rg8
+- (2.41) Depth: 11/23 00:00:00 1687kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.gxh4 Nxh4 3.Qd2 Rgg6 4.exf5 Nxf5 5.Re1 Ne3
+- (2.22) Depth: 11/33 00:00:00 1918kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.gxh4 Nxh4 3.Qd2 Rgg6 4.Qe2 Kh7 5.Kh2 Rf8 6.Qd3 Rf7
+- (2.18) Depth: 12/29 00:00:00 2783kN
1.gxh4
+- (2.18) Depth: 12/29 00:00:00 2954kN
1.gxh4
+- (2.34) Depth: 12/29 00:00:00 3011kN
1.gxh4 Nxh4 2.Qd2 Rg6 3.Rf2 Rg7 4.Rg3 Bd8
+- (2.35) Depth: 12/29 00:00:00 3228kN
1.gxh4 Nxh4 2.Qd2 Rg6 3.Rf2 Rg7 4.Rg3 Bd8 5.Qd3 Rh7 6.Ra2 Kg7 7.f4 fxe4 8.Qxe4 Rxf4
+- (2.18) Depth: 13/29 00:00:01 6634kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.19) Depth: 13/29 00:00:01 8429kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.Re1 Rf7 3.Qd2 fxe4 4.fxe4 hxg3 5.Rxg3 Nf4
+- (2.20) Depth: 13/29 00:00:01 9041kN
1.Qe1
+- (2.20) Depth: 13/30 00:00:02 10408kN
1.Qe1
+- (2.36) Depth: 13/30 00:00:02 11153kN
1.Qe1
+- (2.64) Depth: 14/36 00:00:03 18796kN
1.Qe1 R8f7 2.f4 exf4 3.e5 Bxe5 4.gxh4 Re6 5.hxg5+ Kh7 6.Qe2 Kh8 7.Qd3 Re8 8.Rg2 Rfe7 9.Qxf5
+- (2.59) Depth: 15/33 00:00:04 28287kN
1.Qe1 R6f7
+- (2.31) Depth: 16/37 00:00:07 45803kN
1.Qe1 R6f7 2.exf5 Rxf5 3.gxh4 Bd8 4.hxg5+ Bxg5 5.Qe4 Be3 6.Rg4 Bg1 7.Rgxg1
+- (2.09) Depth: 16/42 00:00:08 50697kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.09) Depth: 16/42 00:00:09 62611kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.gxh4 Nxh4 3.Qd2 Rg7 4.Qe2 Rf8 5.Ra1 Rgf7 6.Ra3 Ng6 7.Qg2 Bd8 8.exf5 Nf4 9.Qg4 Rxf5
+- (2.21) Depth: 16/42 00:00:10 70450kN
1.f4
+- (2.21) Depth: 16/42 00:00:12 84796kN
1.f4
+- (2.37) Depth: 16/42 00:00:13 85670kN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5 d3 3.Qg2 Bxe5 4.gxh4 gxh4 5.Rf3 Rd8 6.Rd1 Rd4 7.Rfxd3 Rxb4 8.Rd7 Rb2 9.R1d2 Rb1+ 10.Rd1 Rxd1+ 11.Rxd1 Re6
+- (2.26) Depth: 17/33 00:00:15 105mN
1.f4
+- (2.54) Depth: 18/37 00:00:21 141mN
1.f4
+- (2.82) Depth: 19/42 00:00:33 223mN
1.f4
+- (3.11) Depth: 19/42 00:00:35 231mN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5 f3 3.Qd2 hxg3 4.Rxg3 Bxe5 5.Rxg5 Re8 6.Rxf3 f4 7.Qg2 Re7 8.Qg4 Kg7 9.h4 Kh7 10.Qh5+ Kg7 11.Kg1 Rfe6
+- (3.22) Depth: 20/55 00:01:06 443mN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5 d3 3.Qg2 Bxe5 4.gxh4 gxh4 5.Rf3 Bd4 6.Qg5+ Kh7 7.Rd1 Be3 8.Rxd3 Ne5 9.Qxh4+ Kg8 10.Rfxe3 fxe3 11.Rxe3
+- (3.09) Depth: 21/43 00:02:06 845mN
1.f4 exf4
+- (2.80) Depth: 22/46 00:03:28 1401mN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5
+- (2.80) Depth: 22/61 00:04:22 1762mN
1.f4
+- (3.09) Depth: 23/48 00:07:59 3223mN
1.f4
+- (3.37) Depth: 24/51 00:17:50 7211mN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5 d3 3.Qg2 Bxe5 4.gxh4 gxh4 5.Rf3 Bd4 6.Qg5+ Kh7 7.Rd1 Be3 8.Rxd3 Ne5 9.Qxh4+ Kg7 10.Rfxe3 fxe3 11.Qg3+ Ng6
+- (3.37) Depth: 25/57 00:39:49 16105mN
(, Internet 01.02.2008)
approximately 5 min and all played Qg2. The only that like f4
it was Deep Fritz 10, on a Quad6600, HT = 1024Kb.
I was curious to know what Fritz 11 play in this position.
New game
b4r2/2b5/P1p2rnk/2P1ppp1/1P1pP2p/5PPP/4Q3/5RRK w - - 0 1
Analysis by Deep Fritz 10:
1.gxh4
+- (2.46) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 227kN
1.gxh4 Nxh4
+- (2.18) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 842kN
1.gxh4 Nxh4 2.Qd2 Rg6
+- (2.18) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 862kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.18) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 1304kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.34) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 1348kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.65) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 1445kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.gxh4 Nxh4 3.Qd2 fxe4 4.fxe4 Rf3 5.Rxf3 Nxf3 6.Qa2 Kg7 7.Rd1 Rf8
+- (2.69) Depth: 10/29 00:00:00 1552kN
1.Qg2 Rg8
+- (2.41) Depth: 11/23 00:00:00 1687kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.gxh4 Nxh4 3.Qd2 Rgg6 4.exf5 Nxf5 5.Re1 Ne3
+- (2.22) Depth: 11/33 00:00:00 1918kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.gxh4 Nxh4 3.Qd2 Rgg6 4.Qe2 Kh7 5.Kh2 Rf8 6.Qd3 Rf7
+- (2.18) Depth: 12/29 00:00:00 2783kN
1.gxh4
+- (2.18) Depth: 12/29 00:00:00 2954kN
1.gxh4
+- (2.34) Depth: 12/29 00:00:00 3011kN
1.gxh4 Nxh4 2.Qd2 Rg6 3.Rf2 Rg7 4.Rg3 Bd8
+- (2.35) Depth: 12/29 00:00:00 3228kN
1.gxh4 Nxh4 2.Qd2 Rg6 3.Rf2 Rg7 4.Rg3 Bd8 5.Qd3 Rh7 6.Ra2 Kg7 7.f4 fxe4 8.Qxe4 Rxf4
+- (2.18) Depth: 13/29 00:00:01 6634kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.19) Depth: 13/29 00:00:01 8429kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.Re1 Rf7 3.Qd2 fxe4 4.fxe4 hxg3 5.Rxg3 Nf4
+- (2.20) Depth: 13/29 00:00:01 9041kN
1.Qe1
+- (2.20) Depth: 13/30 00:00:02 10408kN
1.Qe1
+- (2.36) Depth: 13/30 00:00:02 11153kN
1.Qe1
+- (2.64) Depth: 14/36 00:00:03 18796kN
1.Qe1 R8f7 2.f4 exf4 3.e5 Bxe5 4.gxh4 Re6 5.hxg5+ Kh7 6.Qe2 Kh8 7.Qd3 Re8 8.Rg2 Rfe7 9.Qxf5
+- (2.59) Depth: 15/33 00:00:04 28287kN
1.Qe1 R6f7
+- (2.31) Depth: 16/37 00:00:07 45803kN
1.Qe1 R6f7 2.exf5 Rxf5 3.gxh4 Bd8 4.hxg5+ Bxg5 5.Qe4 Be3 6.Rg4 Bg1 7.Rgxg1
+- (2.09) Depth: 16/42 00:00:08 50697kN
1.Qg2
+- (2.09) Depth: 16/42 00:00:09 62611kN
1.Qg2 Rg8 2.gxh4 Nxh4 3.Qd2 Rg7 4.Qe2 Rf8 5.Ra1 Rgf7 6.Ra3 Ng6 7.Qg2 Bd8 8.exf5 Nf4 9.Qg4 Rxf5
+- (2.21) Depth: 16/42 00:00:10 70450kN
1.f4
+- (2.21) Depth: 16/42 00:00:12 84796kN
1.f4
+- (2.37) Depth: 16/42 00:00:13 85670kN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5 d3 3.Qg2 Bxe5 4.gxh4 gxh4 5.Rf3 Rd8 6.Rd1 Rd4 7.Rfxd3 Rxb4 8.Rd7 Rb2 9.R1d2 Rb1+ 10.Rd1 Rxd1+ 11.Rxd1 Re6
+- (2.26) Depth: 17/33 00:00:15 105mN
1.f4
+- (2.54) Depth: 18/37 00:00:21 141mN
1.f4
+- (2.82) Depth: 19/42 00:00:33 223mN
1.f4
+- (3.11) Depth: 19/42 00:00:35 231mN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5 f3 3.Qd2 hxg3 4.Rxg3 Bxe5 5.Rxg5 Re8 6.Rxf3 f4 7.Qg2 Re7 8.Qg4 Kg7 9.h4 Kh7 10.Qh5+ Kg7 11.Kg1 Rfe6
+- (3.22) Depth: 20/55 00:01:06 443mN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5 d3 3.Qg2 Bxe5 4.gxh4 gxh4 5.Rf3 Bd4 6.Qg5+ Kh7 7.Rd1 Be3 8.Rxd3 Ne5 9.Qxh4+ Kg8 10.Rfxe3 fxe3 11.Rxe3
+- (3.09) Depth: 21/43 00:02:06 845mN
1.f4 exf4
+- (2.80) Depth: 22/46 00:03:28 1401mN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5
+- (2.80) Depth: 22/61 00:04:22 1762mN
1.f4
+- (3.09) Depth: 23/48 00:07:59 3223mN
1.f4
+- (3.37) Depth: 24/51 00:17:50 7211mN
1.f4 exf4 2.e5 d3 3.Qg2 Bxe5 4.gxh4 gxh4 5.Rf3 Bd4 6.Qg5+ Kh7 7.Rd1 Be3 8.Rxd3 Ne5 9.Qxh4+ Kg7 10.Rfxe3 fxe3 11.Qg3+ Ng6
+- (3.37) Depth: 25/57 00:39:49 16105mN
(, Internet 01.02.2008)
-
Le Fou numerique
- Posts: 859
- Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:58 pm
- Location: Elsass
Re: Testposition from A. Nickel - J. van Oosterom
Hi,
This game is analysed by Arno Nickel in Schach 02/2008 page 67 to 71.
The position is on page 71.
Regards,
Patrick
This game is analysed by Arno Nickel in Schach 02/2008 page 67 to 71.
The position is on page 71.
Regards,
Patrick
-
Eelco de Groot
- Posts: 4696
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
- Full name: Eelco de Groot
Re: Testposition from A. Nickel - J. van Oosterom
Danke Patrick aber was sagt Arno Nickel denn vom Zug f4?
Freundlichen Gruß, Eelco
Freundlichen Gruß, Eelco
-
Le Fou numerique
- Posts: 859
- Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:58 pm
- Location: Elsass
Re: Testposition from A. Nickel - J. van Oosterom
Hallo Eelco,Eelco de Groot wrote:Danke Patrick aber was sagt Arno Nickel denn vom Zug f4?
Freundlichen Gruß, Eelco
AN : "34.f4!!
Eine verblüffende Lösung des Stellungsproblems. Trotz scheinbarer Übermacht des Schwarzen gerade auf diesem Feld führt die Sprengung zur völligen Vernichtung der schwarzen Armada".
MfG,
Patrick