mate in 22 that programs do not see

[Uri Blass]

[d]8/p1p5/3p4/p3p3/3k1p2/1K2b1p1/1NP4p/7B w - - 0 1

white capture the 6 pawns of black when black like to lose them and except these moves white play the following 16 moves so I believe that the total number of moves is 22
1.c3+
2.Na4+
3.c4+
4-7. kc3-d3-e2-f1
8.Bf3
9-15.Kg2-h3-g4-f5-e6-d7-c8
16.Bb7#

This problem was composed in 1872 by
horvitch(sorry if I mispell his name)

Uri

[Ovyron]

Impressive. Even when we "zoom" to this position:

[d]8/p7/k2p1b2/p1p1pK2/N1P2p2/5Bp1/7p/8 b - - 0 1

Engines have trouble finding that it's a mate in 8!

[rightrook]

Very good...thanks..!!

1. c3+ Kc5 2. Na4+ Kb5 3. c4+ Ka6 4. Kc3 Bc5 5. Kd3 Bg1 6. Ke2 Bf2 7. Kf1 Bd4
8. Bf3 Be3 9. Kg2 Bc5 10. Kh3 Bd4 11. Kg4 Be3 12. Kf5 Bg1 13. Ke6 c6 14. Bxc6
f3 15. Bxf3 g2 16. Bxg2 Bc5 17. Kd7 e4 18. Bxe4 Bg1 19. Kc8 h1=Q 20. Bxh1 d5
21. Bxd5 Bc5 22. Bb7# 1-0


this is copied from my FRITZ 8...

It does not see any mate until about the last 9 moves...

I doubt any program or engine will see the solution on this one....at move 1 all the way to 22....!!

regards

Robert

[Sylwy]

[d]8/p1p5/3p4/p3p3/3k1p2/1K2b1p1/1NP4p/7B w - - 0 1

white capture the 6 pawns of black when black like to lose them and except these moves white play the following 16 moves so I believe that the total number of moves is 22
1.c3+
2.Na4+
3.c4+
4-7. kc3-d3-e2-f1
8.Bf3
9-15.Kg2-h3-g4-f5-e6-d7-c8
16.Bb7#

This problem was composed in 1872 by
horvitch(sorry if I mispell his name)

Uri

Hi !

The author is Horowitz. In chess strategy is a chapter named "the Horowitz's bishops". But this is an endgame problem .

Regards,
Silvian

Regards,

[F.Huber]

1. c3+ Kc5 2. Na4+ Kb5 3. c4+ Ka6 4. Kc3 Bc5 5. Kd3 Bg1 6. Ke2 Bf2 7. Kf1 Bd4
8. Bf3 Be3 9. Kg2 Bc5 10. Kh3 Bd4 11. Kg4 Be3 12. Kf5 Bg1 13. Ke6 c6 14. Bxc6
f3 15. Bxf3 g2 16. Bxg2 Bc5 17. Kd7 e4 18. Bxe4 Bg1 19. Kc8 h1=Q 20. Bxh1 d5
21. Bxd5 Bc5 22. Bb7# 1-0

I doubt any program or engine will see the solution on this one....at move 1 all the way to 22....!!

I´m quite sure that this is a #23, but not #22.
About 2-3 years ago we´ve analyzed this position in our mate forum, because it was too hard for ChestUCI, and I found a better move for black, which makes the mate one move longer - look here:

1. c3+ Kc5 2. Na4+ Kb5 3. c4+ Ka6 4. Kc3 Bc5 5. Kd3 Bg1 6. Ke2 Bf2 7. Kf1 Bd4 8. Bf3 Be3 9. Kg2
What if black moves now 9... h1Q+ (instead of the bishop move)?
Now the white king has to take the queen (i.e. 10. Kxh1) and so loses one move - at least if I don´t have overlooked something.

[Uri]

This is tough for computers. Shredder 10 misjudges this position. Another example of the horizon effect. But if you solved this without a mate search software then you must be a IM or maybe even a GM.

Btw, what is the best mate search software?

[F.Huber]

This is tough for computers. Shredder 10 misjudges this position. Another example of the horizon effect. But if you solved this without a mate search software then you must be a IM or maybe even a GM.

Well, I´m far away from being an IM/GM!
But if you find the ´idea´ for the solution of this puzzle (which of course no chess engine really could), then it´s quite simple.

Btw, what is the best mate search software?

The answer is almost as easy as solving the position above:
Look at the thread about ´ChestUCI 4.9´ from a few hours ago ...

[Ignacio]

Yes, Franz.
I remember this position and I have it as Mate in 23.
Regards,

Ignacio.

[smirobth]

Hi !

The author is Horowitz. In chess strategy is a chapter named "the Horowitz's bishops". But this is an endgame problem .

Regards,
Silvian

Regards,

Actually the study author is Bernard Horwitz (not Horowitz, who was also a chess player and author). The bishops are called Horwitz bishops (two bishops working together on adjacent diagonals), not Horowitz bishops.

[Sylwy]

Hi !

The author is Horowitz. In chess strategy is a chapter named "the Horowitz's bishops". But this is an endgame problem .

Regards,
Silvian

Regards,

Actually the study author is Bernard Horwitz (not Horowitz, who was also a chess player and author). The bishops are called Horwitz bishops .........

Hello !

Noticeable your efforts for a single little o !
But I think this mistake ( if one ! ) is all around the web. Take a look please:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1035516
http://www.chesscircle.net/forums/gener ... ights.html
....and much more.

Dr. Bartashnikov in his "Basic principles of Chess Strategy" (CD 2) uses also the term "HOROWITZ BISHOPS " .

So much ignorants ??????

Regards,
Silvian