Positional Chess Test Position: f5!

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swami
Posts: 6664
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:21 am

Positional Chess Test Position: f5!

Post by swami »

[d]r2q1rk1/pppbnp1p/3p2p1/3P4/3QPR2/2N5/PPP3PP/1R2N1K1 b - - 0 18

Does your engine avoid c6,c5 and move f5! sooner?

If you play c6, c5, at first engines will give some +0.20, but it makes way for white to develop his pieces like Nd3, h3, g4, Ne4 and then the eval will be +1.5 if you go deeper.

If you play f5, at first eval will be something like +0.50 for white, the few moves later it'd be +0.10 or almost 0.00...
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sorcerers_apprentice

Re: Positional Chess Test Position: f5!

Post by sorcerers_apprentice »

Hi !

Notation is in Spanish ( R = King, D = Queen, A = Bishop, C = Knight, T = Rook ).

At first HIARCS considers c5, switching to f5 after a few seconds; this is what HIARCS thinks of that position:

Code: Select all

Engine: HIARCS 11.2 SP (256 MB)
de Mark John Uniacke

11/22  0:01   -0.59    1...c5 2.Df6 Cc8 3.Dxd8 Txd8 4.Cf3 Ce7 
                       5.Tf1 b5 6.e5 Af5 7.Tc1 (312.041) 293 

12/27  0:02   -0.68    1...c5 2.dxc6 Cxc6 3.Dxd6 Ae6 4.Dc5 Dd4+ 
                       5.Dxd4 Cxd4 6.Td1 Tad8 7.Tf2 Ag4 
                       8.Td3 (794.278) 285 

13/27  0:06   -0.68    1...c5 2.dxc6 Cxc6 3.Dxd6 Ae6 4.Dc5 Dd4+ 
                       5.Dxd4 Cxd4 6.Td1 Tfd8 7.Tf2 Ag4 
                       8.Tdd2 Ae6 9.Cf3 Cxf3+ 10.gxf3 (1.778.569) 286 

13/29  0:10   -0.67    1...f5 (2.924.219) 285 

13/34  0:17   -0.47    1...f5 2.Td1 g5 3.Tf2 Cg6 4.Cd3 f4 
                       5.Db4 Tb8 (5.034.696) 287 

14/35  0:33   -0.46    1...f5 2.Cd3 c5 3.dxc6 Axc6 4.Cb4 Db6 
                       5.Dxb6 axb6 6.Cbd5 Cxd5 7.exd5 Ad7 (9.859.294) 290 

15/36  1:04   -0.51    1...f5 2.Cd3 c5 3.dxc6 Axc6 4.Dc4+ d5 
                       5.exd5 Axd5 6.Dc5 b6 7.Da3 Cc6 (18.245.154) 282 

16/41  2:41   -0.54    1...f5 2.Cd3 c5 3.dxc6 Axc6 4.Cb4 Db6 
                       5.Dxb6 axb6 6.Cbd5 Cxd5 7.exd5 Ad7 
                       8.Tb4 Ta6 9.Te1 Te8 10.Txe8+ Axe8 
                       11.Tf4 Ta5 12.Tb4 b5 (45.985.445) 284 

mejor jugada: f7-f5 tiempo: 3:01.085 min  n/s: 282.521  nodos: 51.090.319
A second opinion comes from old Shredder Classic 1.3: It doesn't consider anything but f5:

Code: Select all


r2q1rk1/pppbnp1p/3p2p1/3P4/3QPR2/2N5/PPP3PP/1R2N1K1 b - -

Engine: Shredder Classic 1.3 (256 MB)
de Stefan Meyer-Kahlen

9/23   0:01   -1.05    1...f5 2.Cd3 c5 3.dxc6 Axc6 4.Tbf1 Db6 
                       5.Dxb6 axb6 6.e5 dxe5 (983.868) 573 

10/25  0:04   -0.93    1...f5 2.Cd3 fxe4 3.Cxe4 Cf5 4.Db4 g5 
                       5.Tg4 h6 6.Dxb7 Ce3 (2.512.417) 587 

11/27  0:10   -0.92    1...f5 2.Cd3 fxe4 3.Cxe4 Cf5 4.Dc4 a6 
                       5.Dc3 Ab5 6.Te1 Axd3 7.cxd3 Dd7 (5.860.258) 577 

12/28  0:24   -0.80    1...f5 2.Cd3 fxe4 3.Cxe4 Cf5 4.Db4 c6 (14.051.184) 581 

13/33  1:16   -0.93    1...f5 2.Cd3 c6 3.dxc6 Axc6 4.Cb4 (43.742.558) 569 

mejor jugada: f7-f5 tiempo: 3:01.211 min  n/s: 561.965  CPU 98.1%   n/s(1CPU): 572.849  nodos: 101.816.297
Cheers !
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sorcerers_apprentice

Re: Positional Chess Test Position: f5!

Post by sorcerers_apprentice »

I also asked Crafty for it's opinion (256 MB hash):

Code: Select all

Engine: Crafty 22.0 (0 MB)
de Robert Hyatt

12.00  0:01   +0.15    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.Tbf1 Ag4 
                       5.Cb5 a6 6.Cc3 c5 7.Dc4 (2.581.841) 1970 

12.00  0:01   +0.15    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.Tbf1 Ag4 
                       5.Cb5 a6 6.Cc3 c5 7.Dc4 (2.693.537) 1951 

13.00  0:02   +0.29    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.e5 dxe5 
                       5.Cxe5 Cf5 6.Db4 Cd6 7.Cc4 Cxc4 
                       8.Dxc4 (4.793.986) 1940 

13.00  0:03   +0.29    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.e5 dxe5 
                       5.Cxe5 Cf5 6.Db4 Cd6 7.Cc4 Cxc4 
                       8.Dxc4 (6.653.547) 1992 

14.00  0:04   +0.30    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.e5 dxe5 
                       5.Cxe5 Te8 6.Te1 Cf5 7.De4 Ce3 
                       8.Tfe2 (9.391.218) 2010 

14.00  0:05   +0.30    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.e5 dxe5 
                       5.Cxe5 Te8 6.Te1 Cf5 7.De4 Ce3 
                       8.Tfe2 (10.949.487) 2027 

15.00  0:09   +0.36    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.e5 dxe5 
                       5.Cxe5 Te8 6.Te1 Cf5 7.Db4 Cd6 8.Dc5 Af5 (20.019.392) 2096 

15.00  0:17   +0.36    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.e5 dxe5 
                       5.Cxe5 Te8 6.Te1 Cf5 7.Db4 Cd6 8.Dc5 Af5 (36.223.989) 2102 

16.00  0:26   +0.30    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.e5 dxe5 
                       5.Cxe5 Te8 6.Te1 Cf5 7.Db4 Tb8 8.De4 Ce3 
                       9.Tfe2 (56.752.590) 2151 

16.00  0:28   +0.30    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.e5 dxe5 
                       5.Cxe5 Te8 6.Te1 Cf5 7.Db4 Tb8 8.De4 Ce3 
                       9.Tfe2 (61.361.444) 2147 

17.00  0:46   +0.36    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.Te1 Cg6 
                       5.e5 dxe5 6.Cxe5 Df6 7.Tfe2 Tae8 
                       8.Cf3 Txe2 9.Txe2 Dxd4+ 10.Cxd4 (99.963.659) 2155 

17.00  0:52   +0.36    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.Te1 Cg6 
                       5.e5 dxe5 6.Cxe5 Df6 7.Tfe2 Tae8 
                       8.Cf3 Txe2 9.Txe2 Dxd4+ 10.Cxd4 (113.543.650) 2150 

18.00  1:33   +0.30    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.Te1 Cg6 
                       5.e5 dxe5 6.Cxe5 Df6 7.Tfe2 Tae8 
                       8.a4 Cxe5 9.Txe5 Af5 10.Cb5 Txe5 
                       11.Txe5 Axc2 12.Cxc7 (208.019.712) 2217 

18.00  1:43   +0.30    1...f5 2.Cd3 g5 3.Tf2 f4 4.Te1 Cg6 
                       5.e5 dxe5 6.Cxe5 Df6 7.Tfe2 Tae8 
                       8.a4 Cxe5 9.Txe5 Af5 10.Cb5 Txe5 
                       11.Txe5 Axc2 12.Cxc7 (228.810.836) 2213 

mejor jugada: f7-f5 tiempo: 3:01.179 min  n/s: 2.213.941  nodos: 228.810.836
Cheers!
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Martin Thoresen
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:07 am

Re: Positional Chess Test Position: f5!

Post by Martin Thoresen »

swami wrote:[d]r2q1rk1/pppbnp1p/3p2p1/3P4/3QPR2/2N5/PPP3PP/1R2N1K1 b - - 0 18

Does your engine avoid c6,c5 and move f5! sooner?

Code: Select all

New game - Bright-0.3b  0.3b 4CPU
r2q1rk1/pppbnp1p/3p2p1/3P4/3QPR2/2N5/PPP3PP/1R2N1K1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Bright 0.3b 4CPU (@ 3.4GHz)

18...f5 
  =  (0.25)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
18...f5 
  =  (0.25)   Depth: 2/5   00:00:00
18...f5 
  =  (0.25)   Depth: 2/5   00:00:00
18...f5 19.Nd3 a5 
  ²  (0.57)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
18...f5 19.Nd3 a5 
  ²  (0.57)   Depth: 3/7   00:00:00
18...f5 19.Nd3 c5 20.dxc6 Bxc6 
  ²  (0.54)   Depth: 4/10   00:00:00
18...f5 19.Nd3 g5 20.Rf3 fxe4 21.Rxf8+ Qxf8 22.Nxe4 
  ²  (0.51)   Depth: 5/12   00:00:00
18...f5 19.Nd3 g5 20.Rf3 fxe4 21.Rxf8+ Qxf8 22.Nxe4 
  ²  (0.51)   Depth: 6/13   00:00:00  11kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 g5 20.Rf3 fxe4 21.Rxf8+ Qxf8 22.Nxe4 Qg7 
  ²  (0.53)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  27kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 c5 20.dxc6 Bxc6 21.Kh1 fxe4 22.Nxe4 Rxf4 23.Nxf4 Bxe4 24.Qxe4 
  ²  (0.50)   Depth: 8/23   00:00:00  119kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 c5 20.dxc6 Bxc6 21.Kh1 fxe4 22.Nxe4 Rxf4 23.Nxf4 Bxe4 24.Qxe4 
  ²  (0.50)   Depth: 9/23   00:00:00  232kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 g5 20.Rf3 Ng6 21.e5 c5 22.Qc4 Nxe5 23.Nxe5 dxe5 24.Qxc5 
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 10/29   00:00:00  732kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 g5 20.Rf3 Ng6 21.Qb4 Qb8 22.Rbf1 f4 23.Nb5 a5 
  ²  (0.41)   Depth: 11/35   00:00:01  1669kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 g5 20.Rf3 f4 21.Qb4 Bg4 22.Rff1 b6 23.h3 a5 24.Qa3 Bd7 
  ²  (0.34)   Depth: 12/35   00:00:01  3875kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 g5 20.Rf3 f4 21.Qb4 Bg4 22.Rff1 b6 23.h3 a5 24.Qa3 Bd7 
  ²  (0.34)   Depth: 13/35   00:00:01  6338kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 g5 20.Rf2 f4 21.Rbf1 Ng6 22.h3 b6 23.e5 dxe5 24.Nxe5 Nxe5 25.Qxe5 Re8 
  ²  (0.34)   Depth: 14/40   00:00:02  17192kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 c5 20.dxc6 Bxc6 21.Qc4+ Kg7 22.Rbf1 Qb6+ 23.Kh1 Rf6 24.Nb4 Rc8 25.Qb3 a5 26.Nd3 Qxb3 27.axb3 Re6 
  ²  (0.32)   Depth: 15/45   00:00:09  72670kN
18...f5 19.Nd3 c5 20.dxc6 Bxc6 21.Qc4+ Kg7 22.Rbf1 Qb6+ 23.Kh1 Rf6 24.a3 Raf8 25.Nd5 Nxd5 26.exd5 g5 27.dxc6 gxf4 28.cxb7 Qxb7 29.Qxf4 
  ²  (0.36)   Depth: 16/47   00:00:14  108mN
18...f5 19.Nd3 c5 20.dxc6 Bxc6 21.Qc4+ Kg7 22.Rbf1 Qb6+ 23.Kh1 Rf6 24.Re1 Re8 25.Nb4 a5 26.Nd3 Kh8 27.Rf3 Rc8 28.Qb3 Qxb3 29.axb3 
  ²  (0.29)   Depth: 17/49   00:00:48  360mN
18...f5 19.Nd3 c5 20.dxc6 Bxc6 21.Qc4+ Kg7 22.Rbf1 Rf6 23.Qd4 Qb6 24.Qxb6 axb6 25.exf5 Rxf5 26.Re1 Rxf4 27.Nxf4 Nf5 28.Kf2 Nd4 29.Ne6+ Nxe6 30.Rxe6 Rf8+ 31.Ke3 Bxg2 32.Rxd6 
  ²  (0.31)   Depth: 18/55   00:01:07  496mN
18...f5 19.Nd3 c5 20.dxc6 Bxc6 21.Nb4 Qb6 22.Qxb6 axb6 23.Re1 fxe4 24.Rxf8+ Rxf8 25.Nxe4 Nf5 26.c4 b5 27.Nxc6 bxc6 28.g4 Nh4 29.Rd1 Nf3+ 30.Kg2 
  ²  (0.30)   Depth: 19/56   00:02:56  1328mN
18...f5 19.Nd3 c5 20.dxc6 Bxc6 21.Nb4 Qb6 22.Qxb6 axb6 23.Nbd5 Bxd5 24.exd5 Ra5 25.Rd4 Re8 26.Re1 Kf7 27.Kf2 g5 28.g3 h5 29.Kf3 h4 
  ²  (0.32)   Depth: 20/56   00:05:40  2557mN
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User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 4562
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Positional Chess Test Position: f5!

Post by Ovyron »

I consider HIARCS Paderborn 2007 the forgotten HIARCS, so I'll be posting the results from it: (17 seconds)

Code: Select all

 10/21	 0:00 	+0.75 	1...c5 2.Qf6 Nc8 3.Qxd8 Rxd8 4.Nf3 f5 5.Rf1 Re8 6.Ng5 (125.406) 238
 10/21	 0:00 	+0.75 	1...c5 2.Qf6 Nc8 3.Qxd8 Rxd8 4.Nf3 f5 5.Re1 Ne7 6.e5 dxe5 7.Nxe5 g5 8.Rff1 (138.373) 238
 11/28	 0:01 	+0.71 	1...c5 2.Qf6 Nc8 3.Qxd8 Rxd8 4.Nf3 Nb6 5.Ng5 (282.044) 244
 12/28	 0:02 	+0.79 	1...c5 2.dxc6 Nxc6 3.Qxd6 Be6 4.Qc5 Qd4+ 5.Qxd4 Nxd4 6.Rd1 Rad8 7.Rf2 Bg4 8.Nf3 Bxf3 9.gxf3 (699.143) 241
 13/30	 0:13 	+0.85 	1...c5 2.dxc6 Nxc6 3.Qxd6 Be6 4.Qc5 Qd4+ 5.Qxd4 Nxd4 6.Rd1 Rad8 7.Rf2 Nc6 8.Nd3 f5 9.e5 Nd4 (3.114.208) 228
 13/30	 0:17 	+0.85 	1...f5 (3.953.061) 227
 13/35	 0:34 	+0.64 	1...f5 2.Nd3 c5 3.dxc6 Bxc6 4.Qc4+ Kg7 5.Rbf1 Qb6+ 6.R4f2 Rae8 7.Nf4 Bd7 8.Na4 Qb5 9.Ne6+ Kf7 10.Qxb5 Bxb5 (7.642.849) 218
 14/37	 0:51 	+0.65 	1...f5 2.Nd3 c5 3.dxc6 Bxc6 4.Qc4+ Kg7 5.Rbf1 Qb6+ 6.Kh1 Rae8 7.a4 Qe3 8.R1f3 Qb6 9.Rf2 (11.358.377) 219
best move: f7-f5 time: 0:56.811 min  n/s: 220.546  nodes: 12.491.459
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