Rybka (without Nb1) vs FM Meyer (ELO 2280) 0-3 (PGN)!

[Edward German]

FM Meyer wins this Match against Rybka (playing on a 8 core machine).

He leads after 3 (from 4 games) 3-0!!!

PGN:

[Event "30m + 30s"]
[Site "Maryland"]
[Date "2008.06.08"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Rybka"]
[Black "Meyer"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Annotator "Nemeth,Eduard"]
[PlyCount "120"]
[EventDate "2008.??.??"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]

1. Nc3 Nf6 2. Nd5 Nxd5 3. Nh3 Nf6 4. Ng1 Ng8 5. d4 d5 6. Nf3 Nf6 7. Bf4 Bf5 8.
e3 e6 9. Be2 Bd6 10. Ne5 Nbd7 11. g4 Bg6 12. h4 h6 13. Nxg6 fxg6 14. Qd3 Kf7
15. O-O-O Bxf4 16. exf4 Nf8 17. Kb1 Qd6 18. Qe3 Re8 19. c3 h5 20. g5 Ne4 21.
Bb5 Re7 22. Bd3 Qc6 23. Bxe4 dxe4 24. Rhe1 Nd7 25. f3 Nb6 26. fxe4 Nc4 27. Qh3
Rhe8 28. b3 Nd6 29. Qd3 b5 30. Qe3 a5 31. Qd3 a4 32. Rc1 axb3 33. axb3 Ra8 34.
Rc2 Ree8 35. Rb2 Ra3 36. Kc2 Rea8 37. d5 exd5 38. Qxd5+ Qxd5 39. exd5 Nf5 40.
Kd3 Rd8 41. c4 c6 42. cxb5 Rxd5+ 43. Kc3 Rxb5 44. Rd1 Ra7 45. Rbd2 Re7 46. Rd7
Nxh4 47. Rxe7+ Kxe7 48. Rd2 Nf5 49. b4 h4 50. Re2+ Kd7 51. Rh2 Rd5 52. Rh3 Rd4
53. Rxh4 Nxh4 54. Kxd4 Kd6 55. Ke4 Nf5 56. Kd3 Kd5 57. Kc3 Nd4 58. Kd3 Nb5 59.
Kc2 Kc4 60. f5 gxf5 0-1

[Event "Blitz:30'+30""]
[Site "Privat"]
[Date "2008.06.08"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Rybka"]
[Black "FM Meyer"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Annotator "Nemeth,Eduard"]
[PlyCount "178"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]

1. Nc3 Nf6 2. Nd5 Nxd5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Ng1 Ng8 5. Nf3 b6 6. e4 Bb7 7. Bd3 g6 8.
O-O Bg7 9. c3 d6 10. Bc2 Nd7 11. d4 e5 12. d5 Ngf6 13. Bg5 h6 14. Be3 O-O 15.
Ne1 Ba6 16. Bd3 Bxd3 17. Qxd3 Nc5 18. Bxc5 bxc5 19. Rb1 Qd7 20. f3 Rab8 21. Nc2
Nh5 22. Ne3 f5 23. c4 fxe4 24. Qxe4 Qe8 25. g3 Nf6 26. Qc2 e4 27. f4 Nh5 28. b3
Bd4 29. Rbe1 Nf6 30. Kg2 Qd7 31. h3 h5 32. Qc1 Bxe3 33. Qxe3 Qf5 34. Qd2 Rbe8
35. Re2 e3 36. Rxe3 Rxe3 37. Qxe3 Re8 38. Qf3 Qe4 39. Qxe4 Rxe4 40. Kf3 Rd4 41.
Ke2 Kf7 42. Ke3 a5 43. Rg1 Re4+ 44. Kf3 Re8 45. Rc1 a4 46. Rc2 axb3 47. axb3
Ra8 48. g4 Ra1 49. g5 Ng8 50. Rb2 Ra3 51. Ke2 Ne7 52. Kd3 Nf5 53. Kc3 Ra8 54.
Rb1 Re8 55. b4 Re3+ 56. Kd2 cxb4 57. Rxb4 Re4 58. Kd3 Rxf4 59. Rb7 Rf3+ 60. Ke2
Re3+ 61. Kf2 Re7 62. Rb3 Re4 63. Rc3 Ke7 64. Kf3 Re5 65. Kf4 Ng7 66. Rg3 Kd7
67. Ra3 Rf5+ 68. Ke4 Rxg5 69. Kf4 Rf5+ 70. Ke3 g5 71. Ra1 Re5+ 72. Kf2 Nf5 73.
Ra3 g4 74. hxg4 hxg4 75. Ra1 Re4 76. Rc1 Ne7 77. Rc2 Ng6 78. Kg3 Ne5 79. c5
dxc5 80. Rxc5 Kd6 81. Ra5 Rd4 82. Ra7 Rxd5 83. Ra6+ c6 84. Kf4 Rd4+ 85. Kg3 Kd5
86. Rb6 Ke4 87. Rb2 Rd3+ 88. Kg2 c5 89. Rb8 c4 0-1

[Event "Blitz:30'+30"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.06.08"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Rybka"]
[Black "FM Meyer"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Annotator "Nemeth,Eduard"]
[PlyCount "102"]
[EventDate "2008.??.??"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]

1. Nc3 Nf6 2. Nd5 Nxd5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Ng1 Ng8 5. f4 d5 6. e3 Nf6 7. Nf3 Bf5 8.
Be2 h6 9. O-O e6 10. d3 Bc5 11. a3 Nbd7 12. b4 Bb6 13. Qd2 O-O 14. Bb2 Bh7 15.
Bd4 Bxd4 16. exd4 b6 17. c3 c5 18. Ne5 Rc8 19. Rac1 Nxe5 20. dxe5 Nd7 21. d4
Be4 22. Rf2 f6 23. Bb5 cxd4 24. cxd4 fxe5 25. dxe5 Rf7 26. Rcf1 Nf8 27. Qd1 Rc3
28. Qd4 Qc8 29. Ba6 Qc7 30. a4 Rc2 31. Be2 Qc3 32. Qxc3 Rxc3 33. a5 Rfc7 34.
Bg4 Rc2 35. axb6 axb6 36. g3 Rxf2 37. Rxf2 Rc1+ 38. Rf1 Rxf1+ 39. Kxf1 Kf7 40.
Ke2 d4 41. Bf3 d3+ 42. Ke3 Bxf3 43. Kxf3 g5 44. fxg5 hxg5 45. Ke3 Nd7 46. Kxd3
Nxe5+ 47. Ke4 Nc6 48. b5 Na7 49. Ke3 Nxb5 50. Kf3 Nd6 51. Ke3 e5 0-1

[George Tsavdaris]

FM Meyer wins this Match against Rybka (playing on a 8 core machine).

He leads after 3 (from 4 games) 3-0!!!

Thanks!

It's a completely logical result.
There is a limit on the handicap you can give. A Knight is just too much.
A good player with a Knight more, should be able to win against any top Grandmaster and any top engine.....

[Edward German]

FM Meyer wins this Match against Rybka (playing on a 8 core machine).

He leads after 3 (from 4 games) 3-0!!!

Thanks!

It's a completely logical result.
There is a limit on the handicap you can give. A Knight is just too much.
A good player with a Knight more, should be able to win against any top Grandmaster and any top engine.....

You are right!

Here is the last game 4:

[Event "30'+30""]
[Site "Maryland"]
[Date "2008.06.08"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Rybka"]
[Black "FM Meyer"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Annotator "Nemeth,Eduard"]
[PlyCount "116"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]

1. Nc3 Nf6 2. Nd5 Nxd5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Ng1 Ng8 5. d4 d5 6. Nf3 Nf6 7. g3 g6 8.
Bg2 Bg7 9. O-O O-O 10. Bf4 c6 11. h3 Ne4 12. c3 Nd7 13. Qc2 Qb6 14. a4 a5 15.
c4 Re8 16. Rac1 e5 17. dxe5 Nxe5 18. Bxe5 Bxe5 19. Nxe5 Rxe5 20. e3 Re8 21.
Rfd1 Be6 22. Rd4 Nf6 23. c5 Qc7 24. Qd1 Qe5 25. Rc3 Ne4 26. Rc1 h5 27. Bxe4
dxe4 28. h4 Bg4 29. Qe1 Bf3 30. Qc3 Qf5 31. Kh2 Bg4 32. Qd2 Re5 33. Rc2 Rxc5
34. Rxc5 Qxc5 35. Rxe4 Be6 36. Rd4 Qb6 37. e4 Re8 38. f3 c5 39. Rd3 Qb4 40. Qf2
b6 41. Qd2 Qxd2+ 42. Rxd2 Kf8 43. Rd6 Rb8 44. Kg2 Ke7 45. Rd2 Bb3 46. Kf2 Bxa4
47. Ke3 Rd8 48. Rh2 c4 49. g4 Rd3+ 50. Kf4 Bd1 51. gxh5 gxh5 52. Rg2 Rxf3+ 53.
Kg5 b5 54. Rg1 Rd3 55. Kf4 Bg4 56. e5 Rd2 57. Rb1 a4 58. Ke3 Rd3+ 0-1

Endresult: Rybka vs FM Meyer 0-4!!!!

[beachknight]

Danke, Eduard.

Best,

[Kurt Utzinger]

Hi George
Just right: I have played three games vs Rybka 2.3.2a mp 32-bit
on my Quad 6600 and won easily all these games: my actual Elo
is only 1979 ... but I know something about computer chess and am still
able to even get draws at 90m+30s against all top programs.
Kind regards
Kurt

[Albert Silver]

FM Meyer wins this Match against Rybka (playing on a 8 core machine).

He leads after 3 (from 4 games) 3-0!!!

Thanks!

It's a completely logical result.
There is a limit on the handicap you can give. A Knight is just too much.
A good player with a Knight more, should be able to win against any top Grandmaster and any top engine.....

Yes. When the Rybka with a pawn handicap matches were made, Larry Kaufman had stated that a pawn was worth about 300-400 elo, so imagine a whole knight.

Albert

[swami]

FM Meyer wins this Match against Rybka (playing on a 8 core machine).

He leads after 3 (from 4 games) 3-0!!!

Thanks!

It's a completely logical result.
There is a limit on the handicap you can give. A Knight is just too much.
A good player with a Knight more, should be able to win against any top Grandmaster and any top engine.....

Yes. When the Rybka with a pawn handicap matches were made, Larry Kaufman had stated that a pawn was worth about 300-400 elo, so imagine a whole knight.

Albert

1. I disagree that a pawn was worth 300-400 elo. There are openings like morra gambit, Benko gambit etc where you had to give away a pawn in compensation for a very slight position advantage/rapid development.

2. If it was the pawn in f file , then it could be worth 200 - 300 elo at Rybka's level, but this is not the case with the pawn on other files a7,d7 etc

3. CCRL's estimation for Rybka is 3129(this was Rybka on a 4 core, the processor used in a match was 8, so that adds up few more), So even by Larry's statement and estimation based on 4 core, knight is about 900 elo points.
So, 3129 - 900 = 2229, which is not bad at all, Rybka should be able to get atleast few win or a draw.
It's like a 2229(*) vs 2280. * on 4 core. on 8 cores, it is about Equal.

It's either Larry's estimation for a pawn is wrong or Rybka needs more knowledge on how to play when handicapped.

[Mike S.]

(...) or Rybka needs more knowledge on how to play when handicapped.

Obviously (which will also help to find toughest defenses in normal games, if required).

But what surprises me most is: How can someone play so precisely, during four complete 30+30 games in a row against a machine monster? We all know what usually happens if we play against engines (not including the Super-GMs among us). A tiny mistake - a pawn gone, at least. Twice in a knight odds game, and the win will almost always be impossible. These can be very deep combos the engines finds almost immediatly. No human can spot them all in limited time. Rybka played on an 8-core computer! I didn't expect such a constant precision from a 63 years old FM in all four games.

(I would not be surprised if Kramnik wins such a match 4-0.)

I do not consider 0-4 being a typical or normal result, for MP-Rybka against an FM under these conditions. - I wonder how other engines would have done (and other FMs; maybe Meyer's practical strength is much underrated relative to his Elo).

[Tony Thomas]

1. I disagree that a pawn was worth 300-400 elo. There are openings like morra gambit, Benko gambit etc where you had to give away a pawn in compensation for a very slight position advantage/rapid development.
It's either Larry's estimation for a pawn is wrong or Rybka needs more knowledge on how to play when handicapped.

It is possible that Larry's estimation of Pawn is correct. However, our assumption that since a knight is worth around 3.5 pawns, it would be worth three times more elo than that of a pawn might be incorrect, in practical terms it could be worth even more since you arent really getting any positional advantage/ mobility by losing it..

[beachknight]

I'd also think that next handicap matches
will be conducted with following conditions:

rybka: without Nb1 knight

opponnent: without b7 pawn

a knight vs pawn handicap match?

Best,

edit/addition: or perhaps a bishop vs pawn handicap match?