Planning/long-term planning? Necesary?

[S.Taylor]

It's interesting to think how much or little computer chess is still behind top human chess, due to weakness in long-term planning.

Would it account for a significant amount of game results?

Maybe it WOULD, being that what happens in life, is very well seconded on the chess board, (from what I've observed).

I now have about 2 hours to fit in many jobs, and if I don't make a plan, I'll achieve almost nothing, if not nothing.

I must see what time I have, and how many of the things I can expect to still get done, and decide which things, and if they will go together and enable me to do what I need to do after 2 hours from now.

This is indeed "planning" in everyday life, and if it is not done, things will fall apart.

Isn't it the same with chess?

(I'll be back after about another 7 hours, and I didn't really have the time for this post now, but I pushed it in my tight schedule (or "non-schedule", as time is too thin to achieve anything without planning it out right now)!)

[trojanfoe]

Yeah I think the idea of seeing a plan during evaluation and making that plan direct future moves is an excellent idea. You would obviously need to override the plan in order to counter the opponent's tactics, possibly returning to the plan later, or formulating a new one; just as a human would do. I don't know how much effort has been put into getting it to work over the years - I would imagine quite alot as you're not the first to think of the idea.

Perhaps Robert Hyatt can enlighten us on how much effort has gone into it and how successful it's been?

Cheers,
Andy

[mclane]

i had an email exchange with Prof. Dr. Hans Werner Meuer
concerning Botwinniks Pioneer.

it was Meuer who met Botwinnik and supported him with machines and other stuff.


i wonder where the sources of Pioneer are.
Does anybody know in which programming-language Pioneer was written ?
maybe it would be possible to continue Pioneer.
as far as we know, the program was not capable of playing whole games, but capable of finding "interesting" moves.

[trojanfoe]

So Pioneer was the first program to demonstrate planning? Are there any others?

Cheers,
Andy

[krazyken]

World Champion Dr. Emanuel Lasker in his Manual of Chess (written in the 1940s), had this to say on planning:

A spirit with a large and roomy brain who without error could keep in mind millions of variations would have no need of planning.

Clearly computers do a great job of being artificial spirits as far as chess playing goes.

[trojanfoe]

World Champion Dr. Emanuel Lasker in his Manual of Chess (written in the 1940s), had this to say on planning:

A spirit with a large and roomy brain who without error could keep in mind millions of variations would have no need of planning.

Clearly computers do a great job of being artificial spirits as far as chess playing goes.

Yeah of course they do, and many engines can beat 99% of the chess-playing public, but if they started to plan in a more human way wouldn't the chess they play be more beautiful?

[S.Taylor]

World Champion Dr. Emanuel Lasker in his Manual of Chess (written in the 1940s), had this to say on planning:

A spirit with a large and roomy brain who without error could keep in mind millions of variations would have no need of planning.

Clearly computers do a great job of being artificial spirits as far as chess playing goes.

Yeah of course they do, and many engines can beat 99% of the chess-playing public, but if they started to plan in a more human way wouldn't the chess they play be more beautiful?

And, as I meant to explain above, I think, that many things are SURE to go wrong, when there is a lack of long-term planning, just like in life.

But also (as in life, too), MOST long term plans go wrong due to unexpected things, like tactics, or short term things etc. Or mistakes. However, when you DO deal with everything on the way, then the main plan may well triumph. And in chess, it should surely account for a significant amount of games, shuldn't it?

Imagine working your whole life for something, only for it to turn out as having been a mistake! Same in chess! (i.e. so you should plan well)

Again, Imagine you need to do 10 things before you catch a plane, but you only have time for 5 of them, and there ARE as much as five of them that if you don't do them, you will either miss the plane, or, your journey will be futile beyond hope.
Well? What do you do?
What you need to do is, to pick out those 5 things, and DO them immeadiately, and let the other 5 things drop. Or ELSE.
And if you keep hoping for one of the other 5 things, and do something towards that, then you have messed up EVERYTHING.

It's not always so strict, but it CAN be. And then everything is at the mercy of the right plan. (and no plan, would certainly be the wrong plan, i n the above case).