Stability of Score, Crafty 22.8 could someone enlighten me ?

Discussion of chess software programming and technical issues.

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kiroje

Stability of Score, Crafty 22.8 could someone enlighten me ?

Post by kiroje »

Hi

In a somewhat desperate attempt to improve my play I have analysed some of my games with Crafty 22.8 and have some success gettting a clue on what the *beeep* is going on when im playing :D

But in this position the score really bumps around - i think its getting stable at ply 19

[d] r2qkb1r/3bpp1p/3P1P2/1p4Pp/np1P3P/p3BN2/P1PQ4/2KR1B1R b kq - 0 21

My question is this : isnt it more usual for programs to have a more consistent score than this(look below for a lengthy analysis from Crafty) ?

Other engines doesnt seem to fluctuate quite as much as Crafty ...

What could be the reason for this ?

Code: Select all

 2 +0.52 21. ... Nc3!! (0.02)
 2 +0.03 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 (0.02)
 2 +0.03 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 (0.03)
 3 +0.03 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 (0.03)
 3 +0.03 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 (0.03)
 4 +1.88 21. ... Nc3 22. dxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Qxc3 a2+ 25. Ka1 bxc3 26. exd8=Q+ Kxd8 (0.05)
 4 +1.45 21. ... exf6 22. Qxb4 Nb2 23. Re1 (0.07)
 4 +0.65 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qb3 (0.07)
 4 +0.65 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qb3 (0.08)
 5 +1.44 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qxb5 Nc3 (0.10)
 5 +1.44 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qxb5 Nc3 (0.11)
 6 +1.04 21. ... exd6!! (0.11)
 6 +0.85 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qb3 Nb2 24. Re1 (0.13)
 6 +0.74 21. ... b3 22. fxe7 bxa2 23. exd8=Q+ Rxd8 24. Qb4 a1=Q+ 25. Kd2 (0.16)
 6 +0.74 21. ... b3 22. fxe7 bxa2 23. exd8=Q+ Rxd8 24. Qb4 a1=Q+ 25. Kd2 (0.17)
 7 +0.64 21. ... b3 22. fxe7 bxa2 23. exd8=Q+ Rxd8 24. Qb4 a1=Q+ 25. Kd2 Qb2 (0.22)
 7 +0.64 21. ... b3 22. fxe7 bxa2 23. exd8=Q+ Rxd8 24. Qb4 a1=Q+ 25. Kd2 Qb2 (0.25)
 8 +0.24 21. ... b3!! (0.38)
 8 -0.43 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 bxc4 24. bxa4 exd6 25. a5 Rb8 (0.55)
 8 -0.43 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 bxc4 24. bxa4 exd6 25. a5 Rb8 (0.60)
 9 -0.28 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 bxc4 24. bxa4 exd6 25. Bf4 c3 26. Qc2 (0.83)
 9 -0.28 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 bxc4 24. bxa4 exd6 25. Bf4 c3 26. Qc2 (0.89)
10 -0.68 21. ... b3!! (1.55)
10 -1.05 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Ka1 Nxd1 25. dxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxd1 Qa5 27. fxe7 Qc3+ 28. Kb1 Qxe3 (2.88)
10 -1.05 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Ka1 Nxd1 25. dxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxd1 Qa5 27. fxe7 Qc3+ 28. Kb1 Qxe3 (2.97)
11 -1.01 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Ka1 Nxd1 25. dxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxd1 Bb4 27. Ne5 Rc3 28. Qxh5 (5.07)
11 -1.01 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Ka1 Nxd1 25. dxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxd1 Bb4 27. Ne5 Rc3 28. Qxh5 (5.27)
12 -0.76 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 exf6 24. Rde1 Bxd6 25. gxf6 bxc4 26. Bg5+ Be6 27. Rxe6+ fxe6 28. f7+ Kxf7 29. Bxd8 cxb3+ 30. Kd1 Rhxd8 (17.89)
12 -0.76 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 exf6 24. Rde1 Bxd6 25. gxf6 bxc4 26. Bg5+ Be6 27. Rxe6+ fxe6 28. f7+ Kxf7 29. Bxd8 cxb3+ 30. Kd1 Rhxd8 (18.58)
13 +0.24 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bf5 27. Bd3 Bxd3 28. Qxd3 Qa6 (62.36)
13 +0.24 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bf5 27. Bd3 Bxd3 28. Qxd3 Qa6 (69.97)
14 +0.53 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bg4 27. Bxb5 Nc5 28. Bxc5 Rxa3 29. Bb6+ Qc7 30. Bxc7+ Kxc7 (125.74)
14 +0.53 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bg4 27. Bxb5 Nc5 28. Bxc5 Rxa3 29. Bb6+ Qc7 30. Bxc7+ Kxc7 (160.02)
15 +0.53 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bg4 27. Bxb5 Nc5 28. Bxc5 Rxa3 29. Bb6+ Qc7 30. Bxc7+ Kxc7 (185.86)
15 +0.53 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bg4 27. Bxb5 Nc5 28. Bxc5 Rxa3 29. Bb6+ Qc7 30. Bxc7+ Kxc7 (204.03)
16 +1.38 21. ... b3 22. d5 Qc8 23. Bd4 exd6 24. Qe3+ Kd8 25. Qxb3 Nc5 26. Qe3 b4 27. Re1 b3 28. cxb3 Nxb3+ 29. Kd1 Nxd4 30. Qxd4 (324.96)
16 +0.89 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 Nxa2+ 24. Kd2 O-O 25. dxe7 Qxe7 26. Qe5 Rfe8 27. Qxe7 Rxe7 28. Ne5 Nc3 29. Bg2 Rc8 (474.75)
16 +0.89 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 Nxa2+ 24. Kd2 O-O 25. dxe7 Qxe7 26. Qe5 Rfe8 27. Qxe7 Rxe7 28. Ne5 Nc3 29. Bg2 Rc8 (709.92)
17 +0.49 21. ... Nc3!! (949.69)
17 +0.45 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 O-O 24. dxe7 Qxe7 25. Qe5 Qd8 26. Re1 Bg4 27. Nh2 Nxa2+ 28. Kd2 Re8 29. Nxg4 Rxe5 30. Nxe5 (1005.02)
17 +0.45 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 O-O 24. dxe7 Qxe7 25. Qe5 Qd8 26. Re1 Bg4 27. Nh2 Nxa2+ 28. Kd2 Re8 29. Nxg4 Rxe5 30. Nxe5 (1044.44)
18 +0.47 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 O-O 24. dxe7 Qxe7 25. Qe5 Qd8 26. Qf6 Nxd1 27. Kxd1 Be6 28. Qh6 Bxa2 29. Bd3 f5 30. Qxh5 (1294.28)
18 +0.47 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 O-O 24. dxe7 Qxe7 25. Qe5 Qd8 26. Qf6 Nxd1 27. Kxd1 Be6 28. Qh6 Bxa2 29. Bd3 f5 30. Qxh5 (1649.96)
19 +0.22 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. dxe7 Qxe7 24. Re1 Nxa2+ 25. Kb1 Nc3+ 26. Ka1 O-O 27. Bf4 Be6 28. d5 Rad8 29. g6 hxg6 30. Bg5 Qc5 31. Bxd8 Rxd8 (2359.58)
19 +0.22 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. dxe7 Qxe7 24. Re1 Nxa2+ 25. Kb1 Nc3+ 26. Ka1 O-O 27. Bf4 Be6 28. d5 Rad8 29. g6 hxg6 30. Bg5 Qc5 31. Bxd8 Rxd8 (2670.52)
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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12781
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Stability of Score, Crafty 22.8 could someone enlighten

Post by Dann Corbit »

kiroje wrote:Hi

In a somewhat desperate attempt to improve my play I have analysed some of my games with Crafty 22.8 and have some success gettting a clue on what the *beeep* is going on when im playing :D

But in this position the score really bumps around - i think its getting stable at ply 19

[d] r2qkb1r/3bpp1p/3P1P2/1p4Pp/np1P3P/p3BN2/P1PQ4/2KR1B1R b kq - 0 21

My question is this : isnt it more usual for programs to have a more consistent score than this(look below for a lengthy analysis from Crafty) ?

Other engines doesnt seem to fluctuate quite as much as Crafty ...

What could be the reason for this ?
Discovered good moves, followed by discovered refutations to the good moves. These are very interesting sorts of positions.

Code: Select all

 2 +0.52 21. ... Nc3!! (0.02)
 2 +0.03 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 (0.02)
 2 +0.03 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 (0.03)
 3 +0.03 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 (0.03)
 3 +0.03 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 (0.03)
 4 +1.88 21. ... Nc3 22. dxe7 Nxa2+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Qxc3 a2+ 25. Ka1 bxc3 26. exd8=Q+ Kxd8 (0.05)
 4 +1.45 21. ... exf6 22. Qxb4 Nb2 23. Re1 (0.07)
 4 +0.65 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qb3 (0.07)
 4 +0.65 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qb3 (0.08)
 5 +1.44 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qxb5 Nc3 (0.10)
 5 +1.44 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qxb5 Nc3 (0.11)
 6 +1.04 21. ... exd6!! (0.11)
 6 +0.85 21. ... exd6 22. Qxb4 d5 23. Qb3 Nb2 24. Re1 (0.13)
 6 +0.74 21. ... b3 22. fxe7 bxa2 23. exd8=Q+ Rxd8 24. Qb4 a1=Q+ 25. Kd2 (0.16)
 6 +0.74 21. ... b3 22. fxe7 bxa2 23. exd8=Q+ Rxd8 24. Qb4 a1=Q+ 25. Kd2 (0.17)
 7 +0.64 21. ... b3 22. fxe7 bxa2 23. exd8=Q+ Rxd8 24. Qb4 a1=Q+ 25. Kd2 Qb2 (0.22)
 7 +0.64 21. ... b3 22. fxe7 bxa2 23. exd8=Q+ Rxd8 24. Qb4 a1=Q+ 25. Kd2 Qb2 (0.25)
 8 +0.24 21. ... b3!! (0.38)
 8 -0.43 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 bxc4 24. bxa4 exd6 25. a5 Rb8 (0.55)
 8 -0.43 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 bxc4 24. bxa4 exd6 25. a5 Rb8 (0.60)
 9 -0.28 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 bxc4 24. bxa4 exd6 25. Bf4 c3 26. Qc2 (0.83)
 9 -0.28 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 bxc4 24. bxa4 exd6 25. Bf4 c3 26. Qc2 (0.89)
10 -0.68 21. ... b3!! (1.55)
10 -1.05 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Ka1 Nxd1 25. dxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxd1 Qa5 27. fxe7 Qc3+ 28. Kb1 Qxe3 (2.88)
10 -1.05 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Ka1 Nxd1 25. dxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxd1 Qa5 27. fxe7 Qc3+ 28. Kb1 Qxe3 (2.97)
11 -1.01 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Ka1 Nxd1 25. dxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxd1 Bb4 27. Ne5 Rc3 28. Qxh5 (5.07)
11 -1.01 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Kb1 Nc3+ 24. Ka1 Nxd1 25. dxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxd1 Bb4 27. Ne5 Rc3 28. Qxh5 (5.27)
12 -0.76 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 exf6 24. Rde1 Bxd6 25. gxf6 bxc4 26. Bg5+ Be6 27. Rxe6+ fxe6 28. f7+ Kxf7 29. Bxd8 cxb3+ 30. Kd1 Rhxd8 (17.89)
12 -0.76 21. ... b3 22. cxb3 Rc8+ 23. Bc4 exf6 24. Rde1 Bxd6 25. gxf6 bxc4 26. Bg5+ Be6 27. Rxe6+ fxe6 28. f7+ Kxf7 29. Bxd8 cxb3+ 30. Kd1 Rhxd8 (18.58)
13 +0.24 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bf5 27. Bd3 Bxd3 28. Qxd3 Qa6 (62.36)
13 +0.24 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bf5 27. Bd3 Bxd3 28. Qxd3 Qa6 (69.97)
14 +0.53 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bg4 27. Bxb5 Nc5 28. Bxc5 Rxa3 29. Bb6+ Qc7 30. Bxc7+ Kxc7 (125.74)
14 +0.53 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bg4 27. Bxb5 Nc5 28. Bxc5 Rxa3 29. Bb6+ Qc7 30. Bxc7+ Kxc7 (160.02)
15 +0.53 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bg4 27. Bxb5 Nc5 28. Bxc5 Rxa3 29. Bb6+ Qc7 30. Bxc7+ Kxc7 (185.86)
15 +0.53 21. ... b3 22. d5 b2+ 23. Kb1 Qc8 24. Bd4 exd6 25. Qe3+ Kd8 26. Qxa3 Bg4 27. Bxb5 Nc5 28. Bxc5 Rxa3 29. Bb6+ Qc7 30. Bxc7+ Kxc7 (204.03)
16 +1.38 21. ... b3 22. d5 Qc8 23. Bd4 exd6 24. Qe3+ Kd8 25. Qxb3 Nc5 26. Qe3 b4 27. Re1 b3 28. cxb3 Nxb3+ 29. Kd1 Nxd4 30. Qxd4 (324.96)
16 +0.89 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 Nxa2+ 24. Kd2 O-O 25. dxe7 Qxe7 26. Qe5 Rfe8 27. Qxe7 Rxe7 28. Ne5 Nc3 29. Bg2 Rc8 (474.75)
16 +0.89 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 Nxa2+ 24. Kd2 O-O 25. dxe7 Qxe7 26. Qe5 Rfe8 27. Qxe7 Rxe7 28. Ne5 Nc3 29. Bg2 Rc8 (709.92)
17 +0.49 21. ... Nc3!! (949.69)
17 +0.45 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 O-O 24. dxe7 Qxe7 25. Qe5 Qd8 26. Re1 Bg4 27. Nh2 Nxa2+ 28. Kd2 Re8 29. Nxg4 Rxe5 30. Nxe5 (1005.02)
17 +0.45 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 O-O 24. dxe7 Qxe7 25. Qe5 Qd8 26. Re1 Bg4 27. Nh2 Nxa2+ 28. Kd2 Re8 29. Nxg4 Rxe5 30. Nxe5 (1044.44)
18 +0.47 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 O-O 24. dxe7 Qxe7 25. Qe5 Qd8 26. Qf6 Nxd1 27. Kxd1 Be6 28. Qh6 Bxa2 29. Bd3 f5 30. Qxh5 (1294.28)
18 +0.47 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. Qh2 O-O 24. dxe7 Qxe7 25. Qe5 Qd8 26. Qf6 Nxd1 27. Kxd1 Be6 28. Qh6 Bxa2 29. Bd3 f5 30. Qxh5 (1649.96)
19 +0.22 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. dxe7 Qxe7 24. Re1 Nxa2+ 25. Kb1 Nc3+ 26. Ka1 O-O 27. Bf4 Be6 28. d5 Rad8 29. g6 hxg6 30. Bg5 Qc5 31. Bxd8 Rxd8 (2359.58)
19 +0.22 21. ... Nc3 22. fxe7 Bxe7 23. dxe7 Qxe7 24. Re1 Nxa2+ 25. Kb1 Nc3+ 26. Ka1 O-O 27. Bf4 Be6 28. d5 Rad8 29. g6 hxg6 30. Bg5 Qc5 31. Bxd8 Rxd8 (2670.52)
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kiroje

Another position that gives crafty some trouble

Post by kiroje »

[d] r6r/3k1p1p/5P2/qp5p/1p1P1Q1P/p1n2N2/2P5/K2R3R w - - 2 30

Code: Select all

 5 -1.74 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 Rg8 32. Rhe1 {HT} (0.01)
 5 -1.74 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 Rg8 32. Rhe1 {HT} (0.01)
 6 -1.34 30. Ne5+!! (0.01)
 6 -1.63 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 Rg8 32. Rhe1 Rg2 33. Re8+ Kd7 (0.01)
 6 -1.63 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 Rg8 32. Rhe1 Rg2 33. Re8+ Kd7 (0.03)
 7 -1.23 30. Ne5+!! (0.03)
 7 -1.33 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Kb6 35. Qd6+ Kb7 36. Nxh8 (0.03)
 7 -1.33 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Kb6 35. Qd6+ Kb7 36. Nxh8 (0.06)
 8 -0.93 30. Ne5+!! (0.08)
 8 -1.12 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Kb6 35. Qd6+ Ka7 36. Nxh8 (0.08)
 8 -1.12 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Kb6 35. Qd6+ Ka7 36. Nxh8 (0.09)
 9 -1.33 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Ka7 36. Qd7+ Kb6 37. Qd6+ Kb7 38. Nxh8 (0.14)
 9 -1.33 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Ka7 36. Qd7+ Kb6 37. Qd6+ Kb7 38. Nxh8 (0.25)
10 -0.93 30. Ne5+!! (0.31)
10 -0.94 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kc7 34. Qc5+ Kb7 35. Nxh8 Qc3+ 36. Qxc3 Nxc3 (0.33)
10 -0.94 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kc7 34. Qc5+ Kb7 35. Nxh8 Qc3+ 36. Qxc3 Nxc3 (0.37)
11 -1.11 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 {HT} (0.72)
11 -1.11 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 {HT} (0.93)
12 -0.88 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 38. Nf7 Nc2+ 39. Ka2 Nxd4 (1.18)
12 -0.88 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 38. Nf7 Nc2+ 39. Ka2 Nxd4 (1.33)
13 -0.89 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 38. Nf7 b4 (3.81)
13 -0.89 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 38. Nf7 b4 (4.72)
14 -1.28 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Qf5+ Kb7 32. Rde1 Qb6 33. Qd7+ Qc7 34. Qxc7+ Kxc7 35. Nxf7 Rhc8 36. Re7+ Kb6 37. Ne5 Nd5 38. Nd7+ Kc7 39. Rxh7 Kd6 (35.36)
14 -0.49 30. Rde1!! (46.92)
14 -0.03 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rxe7 33. fxe7 Qa8 34. Qf5+ Kb8 35. Rg1 Ka7 36. Qd7+ Ka6 37. Qd6+ Ka5 38. Nc6+ Kb6 39. Nxb4+ Kb7 (55.70)
14 -0.03 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rxe7 33. fxe7 Qa8 34. Qf5+ Kb8 35. Rg1 Ka7 36. Qd7+ Ka6 37. Qd6+ Ka5 38. Nc6+ Kb6 39. Nxb4+ Kb7 (56.03)
15 -0.28 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Qf5+ Kb8 34. Qf4 b3 35. cxb3 Kb7 36. Nxf7 Rg8 37. b4 Qb6 38. Rxc7+ Qxc7 39. Qxc7+ Kxc7 (66.47)
15 -0.28 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Qf5+ Kb8 34. Qf4 b3 35. cxb3 Kb7 36. Nxf7 Rg8 37. b4 Qb6 38. Rxc7+ Qxc7 39. Qxc7+ Kxc7 (79.98)
16 -0.17 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Qf5+ Kb8 34. Qf4 b3 35. cxb3 Kb7 36. Nxf7 Ra8 37. Rxc7+ {HT} (94.00)
16 -0.17 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Qf5+ Kb8 34. Qf4 b3 35. cxb3 Kb7 36. Nxf7 Ra8 37. Rxc7+ {HT} (118.42)
17 +0.23 30. Rde1!! (204.89)
17 +0.33 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rxe7 33. fxe7 Qa8 34. Rg1 Kb7 35. Nxf7 Rg8 36. Rxg8 Qxg8 37. Nd8+ Kc8 38. Qf5+ Kc7 39. Qc5+ Kd7 {HT} (262.84)
17 +0.33 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rxe7 33. fxe7 Qa8 34. Rg1 Kb7 35. Nxf7 Rg8 36. Rxg8 Qxg8 37. Nd8+ Kc8 38. Qf5+ Kc7 39. Qc5+ Kd7 {HT} (334.42)
18 +0.73 30. Rde1!! (504.29)
18 +0.95 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Rf8 35. Nd6+ Kb8 36. Qe5 Nd5 37. Re8+ Ka7 38. Nxb5+ Qxb5 39. Rxf8 Qxb3 {HT} (584.65)
18 +0.95 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Rf8 35. Nd6+ Kb8 36. Qe5 Nd5 37. Re8+ Ka7 38. Nxb5+ Qxb5 39. Rxf8 Qxb3 {HT} (639.92)
Top
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12781
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Another position that gives crafty some trouble

Post by Dann Corbit »

kiroje wrote:[d] r6r/3k1p1p/5P2/qp5p/1p1P1Q1P/p1n2N2/2P5/K2R3R w - - 2 30

Code: Select all

 5 -1.74 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 Rg8 32. Rhe1 {HT} (0.01) 
 5 -1.74 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 Rg8 32. Rhe1 {HT} (0.01)
 6 -1.34 30. Ne5+!! (0.01)
 6 -1.63 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 Rg8 32. Rhe1 Rg2 33. Re8+ Kd7 (0.01)
 6 -1.63 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 Rg8 32. Rhe1 Rg2 33. Re8+ Kd7 (0.03)
 7 -1.23 30. Ne5+!! (0.03)
 7 -1.33 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Kb6 35. Qd6+ Kb7 36. Nxh8 (0.03)
 7 -1.33 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Kb6 35. Qd6+ Kb7 36. Nxh8 (0.06)
 8 -0.93 30. Ne5+!! (0.08)
 8 -1.12 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Kb6 35. Qd6+ Ka7 36. Nxh8 (0.08)
 8 -1.12 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Kb6 35. Qd6+ Ka7 36. Nxh8 (0.09)
 9 -1.33 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Ka7 36. Qd7+ Kb6 37. Qd6+ Kb7 38. Nxh8 (0.14)
 9 -1.33 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Ka7 36. Qd7+ Kb6 37. Qd6+ Kb7 38. Nxh8 (0.25)
10 -0.93 30. Ne5+!! (0.31)
10 -0.94 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kc7 34. Qc5+ Kb7 35. Nxh8 Qc3+ 36. Qxc3 Nxc3 (0.33)
10 -0.94 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kc7 34. Qc5+ Kb7 35. Nxh8 Qc3+ 36. Qxc3 Nxc3 (0.37)
11 -1.11 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 {HT} (0.72)
11 -1.11 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 {HT} (0.93)
12 -0.88 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 38. Nf7 Nc2+ 39. Ka2 Nxd4 (1.18)
12 -0.88 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 38. Nf7 Nc2+ 39. Ka2 Nxd4 (1.33)
13 -0.89 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 38. Nf7 b4 (3.81)
13 -0.89 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Nxf7 b3 32. cxb3 Nxd1 33. Qf5+ Kb7 34. Qd7+ Ka6 35. Qe6+ Qb6 36. Qxb6+ Kxb6 37. Nxh8 Ne3 38. Nf7 b4 (4.72)
14 -1.28 30. Ne5+ Kc8 31. Qf5+ Kb7 32. Rde1 Qb6 33. Qd7+ Qc7 34. Qxc7+ Kxc7 35. Nxf7 Rhc8 36. Re7+ Kb6 37. Ne5 Nd5 38. Nd7+ Kc7 39. Rxh7 Kd6 (35.36)
14 -0.49 30. Rde1!! (46.92)
14 -0.03 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rxe7 33. fxe7 Qa8 34. Qf5+ Kb8 35. Rg1 Ka7 36. Qd7+ Ka6 37. Qd6+ Ka5 38. Nc6+ Kb6 39. Nxb4+ Kb7 (55.70)
14 -0.03 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rxe7 33. fxe7 Qa8 34. Qf5+ Kb8 35. Rg1 Ka7 36. Qd7+ Ka6 37. Qd6+ Ka5 38. Nc6+ Kb6 39. Nxb4+ Kb7 (56.03)
15 -0.28 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Qf5+ Kb8 34. Qf4 b3 35. cxb3 Kb7 36. Nxf7 Rg8 37. b4 Qb6 38. Rxc7+ Qxc7 39. Qxc7+ Kxc7 (66.47)
15 -0.28 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Qf5+ Kb8 34. Qf4 b3 35. cxb3 Kb7 36. Nxf7 Rg8 37. b4 Qb6 38. Rxc7+ Qxc7 39. Qxc7+ Kxc7 (79.98)
16 -0.17 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Qf5+ Kb8 34. Qf4 b3 35. cxb3 Kb7 36. Nxf7 Ra8 37. Rxc7+ {HT} (94.00)
16 -0.17 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Qf5+ Kb8 34. Qf4 b3 35. cxb3 Kb7 36. Nxf7 Ra8 37. Rxc7+ {HT} (118.42)
17 +0.23 30. Rde1!! (204.89)
17 +0.33 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rxe7 33. fxe7 Qa8 34. Rg1 Kb7 35. Nxf7 Rg8 36. Rxg8 Qxg8 37. Nd8+ Kc8 38. Qf5+ Kc7 39. Qc5+ Kd7 {HT} (262.84)
17 +0.33 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rxe7 33. fxe7 Qa8 34. Rg1 Kb7 35. Nxf7 Rg8 36. Rxg8 Qxg8 37. Nd8+ Kc8 38. Qf5+ Kc7 39. Qc5+ Kd7 {HT} (334.42)
18 +0.73 30. Rde1!! (504.29)
18 +0.95 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Rf8 35. Nd6+ Kb8 36. Qe5 Nd5 37. Re8+ Ka7 38. Nxb5+ Qxb5 39. Rxf8 Qxb3 {HT} (584.65)
18 +0.95 30. Rde1 Kc8 31. Re7 Ra7 32. Ne5 Rc7 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Rf8 35. Nd6+ Kb8 36. Qe5 Nd5 37. Re8+ Ka7 38. Nxb5+ Qxb5 39. Rxf8 Qxb3 {HT} (639.92)
Let's simplify it a bit, with my notes added:

Code: Select all

 5 -1.74 30. Ne5+ {We're down almost two pawns, but it's the best thing I can find!}
 5 -1.74 30. Ne5+ 
 6 -1.34 30. Ne5+!! (0.01)  {Oh boy! we found a little ways down the road that we pick up 1/2 pawn using this key move}
 6 -1.63 30. Ne5+  {Rats, a partial refuation.}
 6 -1.63 30. Ne5+ 
 7 -1.23 30. Ne5+!! (0.03)  {Oh boy! Next ply shows an even better result, we're only down a little more than a pawn}
 7 -1.33 30. Ne5+ 
 7 -1.33 30. Ne5+ 
 8 -0.93 30. Ne5+!! (0.08)  {Yippee!!!  We have picked up nearly a pawn so now we may be able to find a draw if things keep lookin up!}
 8 -1.12 30. Ne5+ 
 8 -1.12 30. Ne5+ 
 9 -1.33 30. Ne5+ 
 9 -1.33 30. Ne5+ {We lost a little ground due to refutations}
10 -0.93 30. Ne5+!! (0.31)  {Next ply again shows we are only down about one pawn.  Happy days.}
10 -0.94 30. Ne5+ 
10 -0.94 30. Ne5+ 
11 -1.11 30. Ne5+ 
11 -1.11 30. Ne5+  {Oh,oh.  Deeper search finds refutation}
12 -0.88 30. Ne5+  {Good news!  Next ply shows progress, still down just a little less than one pawn}
12 -0.88 30. Ne5+ 
13 -0.89 30. Ne5+ 
13 -0.89 30. Ne5+ 
14 -1.28 30. Ne5+ {Oh no, a refutation on the next ply shows a big dip in the score.}
14 -0.49 30. Rde1!! (46.92)  {Found a new best move!!!  Now we are down only 1/2 pawn}
14 -0.03 30. Rde1 
14 -0.03 30. Rde1 
15 -0.28 30. Rde1 
15 -0.28 30. Rde1 
16 -0.17 30. Rde1 
16 -0.17 30. Rde1 {After looking at all the alternatives we have nearly equalized}
17 +0.23 30. Rde1!! (204.89)  {Even better news, the key move Re1 shows a slight advantage!}
17 +0.33 30. Rde1 
17 +0.33 30. Rde1 
18 +0.73 30. Rde1!! (504.29)  {Next ply shows an even bigger advantage!}
18 +0.95 30. Rde1 
18 +0.95 30. Rde1 {We are now up one full pawn.  Almost certainly, this is the best move}
Top
kiroje

Re: Another position that gives crafty some trouble

Post by kiroje »

Will this commentary get it into the next version of Crafty ?

Ill give you to Crafty 23.00 ;-)

Thanks

Maybe these can be used for test positions ?
Top
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12781
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Another position that gives crafty some trouble

Post by Dann Corbit »

kiroje wrote:Will this commentary get it into the next version of Crafty ?
Actually, it's already there. I was just reinterpreting it in more common language.
Ill give you to Crafty 23.00 ;-)

Thanks

Maybe these can be used for test positions ?
Both of those appear to be pretty good test positions. I am analyzing them now.
Top
kiroje

Re: Another position that gives crafty some trouble

Post by kiroje »

This is the last one from that game, seems that Crafty needs to go to at least 18-19 Ply before "solving" these positions

[d] r2k3r/5p1p/5P2/qp3Q1p/1p1P3P/p1n2N2/2P5/K2R3R w - - 4 31

Code: Select all

 3 -4.35 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. Rde1 (0.02)
 3 -3.98 31. Qxh5 Nxd1 32. Qd5+ Kc8 33. Rxd1 (0.02)
 3 -2.92 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Ng5 (0.02)
 3 -2.92 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Ng5 (0.02)
 4 -3.24 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Ra7 (0.04)
 4 -2.52 31. Ne5!! (0.04)
 4 -1.52 31. Ne5!! (0.04)
 4 -3.24 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Ng5 Qb7 {HT} (0.05)
 4 -3.24 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Ng5 Qb7 {HT} (0.05)
 5 -2.84 31. Rde1!! (0.07)
 5 -2.31 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Qd6 33. Rhe1 (0.07)
 5 -1.84 31. Ne5!! (0.07)
 5 -0.84 31. Ne5!! (0.08)
 5 -3.49 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Re1+ Kf8 35. Rxd1 (0.10)
 5 -3.49 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Re1+ Kf8 35. Rxd1 (0.10)
 6 -3.09 31. Ne5!! (0.11)
 6 -2.09 31. Ne5!! (0.11)
 6 -3.24 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. Qxh5 Ra7 33. d5 Rb7 34. Nc6+ Kc8 35. Nxb4 Nxd1 36. Qxd1 (0.13)
 6 -1.94 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Qd6 33. Ne5 {HT} (0.13)
 6 -1.94 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Qd6 33. Ne5 {HT} (0.14)
 7 -1.54 31. Rde1!! (0.16)
 7 -1.36 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Qc6 33. Rhe1 Ra4 34. Rxf7 (0.27)
 7 -0.54 31. Ne5!! (0.27)
 7 -2.34 31. Ne5 (0.30)
 8 -1.94 31. Ne5!! (0.30)
 8 -0.94 31. Ne5!! (0.30)
 8 -0.78 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Qe4+ Kf8 35. Qxb4+ Ke8 36. Re1+ Kd7 37. Re7+ Kc8 38. Rxc7+ Kxc7 39. Qxb5 (0.33)
 8 -0.78 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Qe4+ Kf8 35. Qxb4+ Ke8 36. Re1+ Kd7 37. Re7+ Kc8 38. Rxc7+ Kxc7 39. Qxb5 (0.35)
 9 -0.78 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Qe4+ Kf8 35. Qxb4+ Ke8 36. Re1+ Kd7 37. Re7+ Kc8 38. Rxc7+ Kxc7 39. Qxb5 (0.38)
 9 -0.78 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Qe4+ Kf8 35. Qxb4+ Ke8 36. Re1+ Kd7 37. Re7+ Kc8 38. Rxc7+ Kxc7 39. Qxb5 (0.39)
10 -1.60 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qb7 33. Qxh5 Rf8 34. Nc6+ Kc8 35. Qg4+ Qd7 36. Qxb4 Nxd1 37. Qxf8+ Kb7 (0.57)
10 -1.60 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qb7 33. Qxh5 Rf8 34. Nc6+ Kc8 35. Qg4+ Qd7 36. Qxb4 Nxd1 37. Qxf8+ Kb7 (0.75)
11 -1.20 31. Ne5!! (0.75)
11 -1.13 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qb7 33. Nc6+ Kc7 34. Rhe1 Rae8 35. Qf4+ Kc8 36. Ne7+ Kd7 37. Rd3 Kd8 38. Qxb4 (0.99)
11 -1.13 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qb7 33. Nc6+ Kc7 34. Rhe1 Rae8 35. Qf4+ Kc8 36. Ne7+ Kd7 37. Rd3 Kd8 38. Qxb4 (1.24)
12 -0.73 31. Ne5!! (1.25)
12 -0.96 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 Kb8 34. Qxh7 Ra6 35. Qxh5 Qa4 36. Qg6 Rc7 37. Re8+ Rc8 38. Rxc8+ Kxc8 (3.10)
12 -0.96 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 Kb8 34. Qxh7 Ra6 35. Qxh5 Qa4 36. Qg6 Rc7 37. Re8+ Rc8 38. Rxc8+ Kxc8 (3.58)
13 -0.56 31. Ne5!! (3.60)
13 -0.07 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxh8 37. Qd4+ Ka6 38. Ka2 Rc8 (7.38)
13 -0.07 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxh8 37. Qd4+ Ka6 38. Ka2 Rc8 (7.69)
14 -0.07 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxh8 37. Qd4+ Kb7 38. Re1 Re8 39. Rxe8 Qxe8 40. Qxb4 (14.41)
14 -0.07 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxh8 37. Qd4+ Kb7 38. Re1 Re8 39. Rxe8 Qxe8 40. Qxb4 (16.46)
15 +0.01 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxc2 37. Qd4+ Ka5 38. Nf7 b3 39. Qd2+ b4 40. d6 b2+ 41. Ka2 (30.68)
15 +0.01 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxc2 37. Qd4+ Ka5 38. Nf7 b3 39. Qd2+ b4 40. d6 b2+ 41. Ka2 (31.61)
16 +0.01 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. Re7+ Kb6 35. Re6+ Ka7 36. Re7+ Ka6 {HT} (123.50)
16 +0.01 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. Re7+ Kb6 35. Re6+ Ka7 36. Re7+ Ka6 {HT} (142.04)
17 +0.01 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. Re7+ Kb6 35. Re6+ Ka7 36. Re7+ Ka6 37. Re6+ Ka7 (222.21)
17 +0.01 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. Re7+ Kb6 35. Re6+ Ka7 36. Re7+ Ka6 37. Re6+ Ka7 (243.68)
18 +0.35 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Qb4 35. Qc5+ Qxc5 36. dxc5 b4 37. Ne5 Ra5 38. Nd3 Rf8 39. Nxb4 Rxf6 40. Re7+ Kb8 (737.22)
18 +0.35 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Qb4 35. Qc5+ Qxc5 36. dxc5 b4 37. Ne5 Ra5 38. Nd3 Rf8 39. Nxb4 Rxf6 40. Re7+ Kb8 (832.35)
19 +0.36 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Qb4 35. Qc5+ Qxc5 36. dxc5 b4 37. Ne5 Ra5 38. Nd3 Rf8 39. Rhf1 Kc6 40. Re6+ Kd7 41. Rd6+ Kc7 (1971.36)
Top
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12781
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Another position that gives crafty some trouble

Post by Dann Corbit »

kiroje wrote:This is the last one from that game, seems that Crafty needs to go to at least 18-19 Ply before "solving" these positions

[d] r2k3r/5p1p/5P2/qp3Q1p/1p1P3P/p1n2N2/2P5/K2R3R w - - 4 31

Code: Select all

 3 -4.35 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. Rde1 (0.02)
 3 -3.98 31. Qxh5 Nxd1 32. Qd5+ Kc8 33. Rxd1 (0.02)
 3 -2.92 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Ng5 (0.02)
 3 -2.92 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Ng5 (0.02)
 4 -3.24 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Ra7 (0.04)
 4 -2.52 31. Ne5!! (0.04)
 4 -1.52 31. Ne5!! (0.04)
 4 -3.24 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Ng5 Qb7 {HT} (0.05)
 4 -3.24 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Ng5 Qb7 {HT} (0.05)
 5 -2.84 31. Rde1!! (0.07)
 5 -2.31 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Qd6 33. Rhe1 (0.07)
 5 -1.84 31. Ne5!! (0.07)
 5 -0.84 31. Ne5!! (0.08)
 5 -3.49 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Re1+ Kf8 35. Rxd1 (0.10)
 5 -3.49 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Re1+ Kf8 35. Rxd1 (0.10)
 6 -3.09 31. Ne5!! (0.11)
 6 -2.09 31. Ne5!! (0.11)
 6 -3.24 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. Qxh5 Ra7 33. d5 Rb7 34. Nc6+ Kc8 35. Nxb4 Nxd1 36. Qxd1 (0.13)
 6 -1.94 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Qd6 33. Ne5 {HT} (0.13)
 6 -1.94 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Qd6 33. Ne5 {HT} (0.14)
 7 -1.54 31. Rde1!! (0.16)
 7 -1.36 31. Rde1 Qa6 32. Re7 Qc6 33. Rhe1 Ra4 34. Rxf7 (0.27)
 7 -0.54 31. Ne5!! (0.27)
 7 -2.34 31. Ne5 (0.30)
 8 -1.94 31. Ne5!! (0.30)
 8 -0.94 31. Ne5!! (0.30)
 8 -0.78 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Qe4+ Kf8 35. Qxb4+ Ke8 36. Re1+ Kd7 37. Re7+ Kc8 38. Rxc7+ Kxc7 39. Qxb5 (0.33)
 8 -0.78 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Qe4+ Kf8 35. Qxb4+ Ke8 36. Re1+ Kd7 37. Re7+ Kc8 38. Rxc7+ Kxc7 39. Qxb5 (0.35)
 9 -0.78 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Qe4+ Kf8 35. Qxb4+ Ke8 36. Re1+ Kd7 37. Re7+ Kc8 38. Rxc7+ Kxc7 39. Qxb5 (0.38)
 9 -0.78 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Nxd1 33. Nc6+ Ke8 34. Qe4+ Kf8 35. Qxb4+ Ke8 36. Re1+ Kd7 37. Re7+ Kc8 38. Rxc7+ Kxc7 39. Qxb5 (0.39)
10 -1.60 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qb7 33. Qxh5 Rf8 34. Nc6+ Kc8 35. Qg4+ Qd7 36. Qxb4 Nxd1 37. Qxf8+ Kb7 (0.57)
10 -1.60 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qb7 33. Qxh5 Rf8 34. Nc6+ Kc8 35. Qg4+ Qd7 36. Qxb4 Nxd1 37. Qxf8+ Kb7 (0.75)
11 -1.20 31. Ne5!! (0.75)
11 -1.13 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qb7 33. Nc6+ Kc7 34. Rhe1 Rae8 35. Qf4+ Kc8 36. Ne7+ Kd7 37. Rd3 Kd8 38. Qxb4 (0.99)
11 -1.13 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qb7 33. Nc6+ Kc7 34. Rhe1 Rae8 35. Qf4+ Kc8 36. Ne7+ Kd7 37. Rd3 Kd8 38. Qxb4 (1.24)
12 -0.73 31. Ne5!! (1.25)
12 -0.96 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 Kb8 34. Qxh7 Ra6 35. Qxh5 Qa4 36. Qg6 Rc7 37. Re8+ Rc8 38. Rxc8+ Kxc8 (3.10)
12 -0.96 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 Kb8 34. Qxh7 Ra6 35. Qxh5 Qa4 36. Qg6 Rc7 37. Re8+ Rc8 38. Rxc8+ Kxc8 (3.58)
13 -0.56 31. Ne5!! (3.60)
13 -0.07 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxh8 37. Qd4+ Ka6 38. Ka2 Rc8 (7.38)
13 -0.07 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxh8 37. Qd4+ Ka6 38. Ka2 Rc8 (7.69)
14 -0.07 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxh8 37. Qd4+ Kb7 38. Re1 Re8 39. Rxe8 Qxe8 40. Qxb4 (14.41)
14 -0.07 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxh8 37. Qd4+ Kb7 38. Re1 Re8 39. Rxe8 Qxe8 40. Qxb4 (16.46)
15 +0.01 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxc2 37. Qd4+ Ka5 38. Nf7 b3 39. Qd2+ b4 40. d6 b2+ 41. Ka2 (30.68)
15 +0.01 31. Ne5 Qc7 32. d5 Qc8 33. Nxf7+ Kc7 34. Qe5+ Kb6 35. Nxh8 Nxd1 36. Rxd1 Qxc2 37. Qd4+ Ka5 38. Nf7 b3 39. Qd2+ b4 40. d6 b2+ 41. Ka2 (31.61)
16 +0.01 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. Re7+ Kb6 35. Re6+ Ka7 36. Re7+ Ka6 {HT} (123.50)
16 +0.01 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. Re7+ Kb6 35. Re6+ Ka7 36. Re7+ Ka6 {HT} (142.04)
17 +0.01 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. Re7+ Kb6 35. Re6+ Ka7 36. Re7+ Ka6 37. Re6+ Ka7 (222.21)
17 +0.01 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. Re7+ Kb6 35. Re6+ Ka7 36. Re7+ Ka6 37. Re6+ Ka7 (243.68)
18 +0.35 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Qb4 35. Qc5+ Qxc5 36. dxc5 b4 37. Ne5 Ra5 38. Nd3 Rf8 39. Nxb4 Rxf6 40. Re7+ Kb8 (737.22)
18 +0.35 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Qb4 35. Qc5+ Qxc5 36. dxc5 b4 37. Ne5 Ra5 38. Nd3 Rf8 39. Nxb4 Rxf6 40. Re7+ Kb8 (832.35)
19 +0.36 31. Ne5 Kc7 32. Rde1 Rhc8 33. Nxf7 b3 34. cxb3 Qb4 35. Qc5+ Qxc5 36. dxc5 b4 37. Ne5 Ra5 38. Nd3 Rf8 39. Rhf1 Kc6 40. Re6+ Kd7 41. Rd6+ Kc7 (1971.36)
The depth to find a best move will be a function of the difficulty of the position. I guess that all chess engines will have about equal difficulty with these positions.

The lesson to be learned is that the longer you let the engine think, the more likely you are to have the best answer, but util we resolve to checkmate/draw/-checkmate we will never know absolutely for sure what the answer is.
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kiroje

Re: Another position that gives crafty some trouble

Post by kiroje »

Hi Dann

I know that the longer the engine gets to think the "better" the analysis will be, I just found especially this game to be a harder nut than usual for Craft 22.8 to crack.

One thing though after looking at it with other engines(Toga and Rybka 2.2n2) it seems that Crafty may have a harder time with these than other engines ?

Maybe Robert Hyatt can use it for improving Crafty - at least it gave me lots of fun this evening going through the game and positions.

/kim
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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12781
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Another position that gives crafty some trouble

Post by Dann Corbit »

kiroje wrote:Hi Dann

I know that the longer the engine gets to think the "better" the analysis will be, I just found especially this game to be a harder nut than usual for Craft 22.8 to crack.

One thing though after looking at it with other engines(Toga and Rybka 2.2n2) it seems that Crafty may have a harder time with these than other engines ?
I am not so sure. Rybka is having a cross-eyed hissy-fit with one of them.
Maybe Robert Hyatt can use it for improving Crafty - at least it gave me lots of fun this evening going through the game and positions.

/kim
Can you post the game score?
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