Surprise Move Some Programs Play

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rightrook
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:45 pm

Surprise Move Some Programs Play

Post by rightrook »

[d]r4rk1/1p1qbp2/p1n1p1pQ/2pp2Pn/5P2/1PN1P2R/PBPP3P/R5K1 w - - 0 1

I was surprised to see that ....Kh1.... was the "winning move" here.

Any new engines fine anything better?

regards

Robert
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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12792
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Surprise Move Some Programs Play

Post by Dann Corbit »

rightrook wrote:[d]r4rk1/1p1qbp2/p1n1p1pQ/2pp2Pn/5P2/1PN1P2R/PBPP3P/R5K1 w - - 0 1

I was surprised to see that ....Kh1.... was the "winning move" here.

Any new engines fine anything better?

regards

Robert
Kh1 and f5 are both devastating.
All the strong engines I tried (9 so far) pick one move or the other.
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rightrook
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:45 pm

Re: Surprise Move Some Programs Play

Post by rightrook »

Okay...thanks!

Yes, I forgot about f5.....this also wins!

I missed both of these moves....Kh1 or f5.... :roll:

I played....Nxd5...but still finally won.... :lol:

best regards

Robert
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smrf
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:08 am
Location: Klein-Gerau, Germany

Re: Surprise Move Some Programs Play

Post by smrf »

My Smirf first is on your way, but finally switchs to a mentioned solution.
  • 04:43.9 (15.01=) +3.137 1.f5 (Nxd5) Bxg5 2.Qxg5 exf5 3.Rxh5 d4 4.Rh3 Kg7 5.Qh6+ Kf6 6.Ne2 Rfe8 7.Nf4 Rad8 8.Qh4+ Kg7
    03:07.6 (14.23=) +2.912 1.f5 (Nxd5) Bxg5 2.Qxg5 exf5 3.Rxh5 d4 4.Rh3 Kg7 5.Qh6+ Kf6 6.Qh4+ Ke6 7.exd4 Qxd4+ 8.Re3+ Ne5
    02:31.4 (14.23+) +1.814 1.f5 (Nxd5) Ne5 2.Rxh5 gxh5 3.f6 Bxf6 4.Qxf6 d4 5.Qxe5 dxc3 6.Bxc3 f6 7.gxf6 Qg7+ 8.fxg7 Rf1+
    00:56.2 (14.01=) +1.813 1.Nxd5 (=/=) e5 2.Nxe7+ Nxe7 3.Bxe5 f6 4.Bxf6 Rxf6 5.gxf6 Qxh3 6.fxe7 Qg4+ 7.Kf2 Qh4+ 8.Kf3 Qh3+
    00:36.7 (13.01=) +2.631 1.Nxd5 (=/=) e5 2.Nxe7+ Nxe7 3.Bxe5 f6 4.Bxf6 Rxf6 5.gxf6 Qxh3 6.fxe7 Qg4+ 7.Kf2 Re8 8.Qxh5 gxh5
    00:23.5 (12.01=) +2.332 1.Nxd5 (=/=) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.f5 Rfd8 4.fxg6 fxg6 5.Qxg6+ Ng7 6.Qh7+ Kf8 7.Qh8+ Kf7 8.Rf1+ Ke6
    00:06.6 (11.01=) +2.148 1.Nxd5 (=/=) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.f5 Rfd8 4.fxg6 fxg6 5.Qxg6+ Ng7 6.Qh7+ Kf8 7.Rf1+ Ke8 8.Qg6+ Kd7
    00:04.1 (10.01=) +2.078 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.f5 Qd7 4.fxg6 fxg6 5.Qxg6+ Ng7 6.Qh7+ Kf7 7.Rf1+ Ke6 8.Rxf8 Rxf8
    00:03.8 (10.01+) +2.078 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.f5 Qd7 4.fxg6 Qg4+ 5.Rg3 fxg6 6.Rxg4 Rf1+ 7.Rxf1 Re8
    00:02.4 (09.01=) +1.732 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.f5 Qd7 4.fxg6 Qg4+ 5.Rg3 Rae8
    00:02.2 (09.01+) +1.385 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.f5 Rfe8 4.fxg6 fxg6 5.Qxg6+ Qg7 6.Qxg7+ Nxg7
    00:00.7 (08.01=) +1.141 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.f5 Rfe8 4.fxg6 fxg6 5.Qxg6+ Kf8
    00:00.6 (08.01+) +1.135 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.f5 Rad8 4.fxg6 fxg6 5.Qxg6+ Qg7 6.Qxh5 Qxg5+ 7.Qxg5+ Kf7
    00:00.5 (07.01=) +0.906 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.fxe5 Nxe5 4.Rf1 Rad8 5.Bc3 Rd4 6.exd4 Qxg5+
    00:00.1 (06.01=) +0.877 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.fxe5 Nxe5 4.Rf1 Rad8 5.d4
    00:00.0 (05.01=) +0.834 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.fxe5 Nxe5 4.Rf1 Rae8
    00:00.0 (02.05=) +0.057 1.Nxd5 (Rxh5) Rae8
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Terry McCracken
Posts: 16465
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: Surprise Move Some Programs Play

Post by Terry McCracken »

rightrook wrote:[d]r4rk1/1p1qbp2/p1n1p1pQ/2pp2Pn/5P2/1PN1P2R/PBPP3P/R5K1 w - - 0 1

I was surprised to see that ....Kh1.... was the "winning move" here.

Any new engines fine anything better?

regards

Robert
f5! and Kh1!! are both good moves but Kh1 is better as it sets up the combination Rxh5 which wouldn't work if the King were on g1 as the Black Queen gets in with checks. It also makes room for the Queen Rook to seize the g-file.
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rightrook
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:45 pm

Re: Surprise Move Some Programs Play

Post by rightrook »

f5! and Kh1!! are both good moves but Kh1 is better as it sets up the combination Rxh5 which wouldn't work if the King were on g1 as the Black Queen gets in with checks. It also makes room for the Queen Rook to seize the g-file...

Hi Terry....thanks.....yes, I agree.....Kh1 is really "looking ahead"...:-)


regards

Robert
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Howard E
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Surprise Move Some Programs Play

Post by Howard E »

ProDeo Ares:
i7 920
512 ram

11 00:03 6.749.681 2.249.893 +0.97 f4f5 e6e5 f5g6 f7g6 h6g6 h5g7 g6h7 g8f7 h3g3 d5d4 c3a4 d4e3 d2e3 d7d2 c2c4
11 00:05 10.304.996 2.048.706 +0.97 g1h1
11 00:08 16.801.207 2.029.131 +2.44 g1h1 c6e5 f4e5 e7d8 c3e2 d7e7 a1g1 d8a5 h3f3 a5d2
12 00:11 22.602.692 2.054.790 +2.87 g1h1 c6e5 f4e5 d7e8 a1f1 e7d8 h3f3 e8e7 h2h4 h5g7 e3e4 d8c7
13 00:23 48.013.546 2.087.545 +3.62 g1h1 e7g5 h6g5 e6e5 h3h5 c6e7 a1g1 f7f6 g5h6 g8f7 f4f5 f8g8 e3e4 d5d4
14 01:00 127.335.760 2.122.262 +4.66 g1h1 e7g5 h6g5 e6e5 h3h5 f8d8 f4e5 d7f5 g5f5 g6f5 a1g1 g8f8 h5f5 c6e7 f5f1 d5d4 c3e4 d4e3 d2e3
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swami
Posts: 6662
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:21 am

Re: Surprise Move Some Programs Play

Post by swami »

Analysis by bright-0.4-cct1:
  • 1.Nd1
    -+ (-2.46) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
    1.Nd1
    -+ (-2.46) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
    1.Ne2
    -+ (-2.13) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
    1.Nxd5
    -/+ (-0.76) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00
    1.Nxd5 e5
    -/+ (-0.93) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00
    1.Nxd5 e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7
    -/+ (-1.34) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00
    1.Nxd5 e5 2.Bxe5 Nxe5 3.Nxe7+ Qxe7 4.fxe5 Qxe5
    -+ (-1.71) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00
    1.Nxd5 e5 2.Nxe7+ Qxe7 3.f5 Qd6
    -/+ (-1.06) Depth: 5/14 00:00:00
    1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.g6 fxg6 3.Qxg6+ Kh8 4.Nxd5+ e5 5.Qh6+ Kg8 6.Qg6+ Kh8
    = (0.00) Depth: 5/18 00:00:00
    1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.g6 fxg6 3.Qxg6+ Kh8 4.Nxd5+ e5 5.Qh6+ Kg8 6.Qg6+ Kh8
    = (0.00) Depth: 6/24 00:00:00 37kN
    1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.g6 fxg6 3.Qxg6+ Kh8 4.Nxd5+ e5 5.Qh6+ Kg8 6.Qg6+ Kh8
    = (0.00) Depth: 7/29 00:00:00 142kN
    1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.g6 fxg6 3.Qxg6+ Kh8 4.Nxd5+ e5 5.Qh6+ Kg8 6.Qg6+ Kh8
    = (0.00) Depth: 8/35 00:00:00 348kN
    1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.g6 fxg6 3.Qxg6+ Kh8 4.Nxd5+ e5 5.Qh6+ Kg8 6.Qg6+ Kh8
    = (0.00) Depth: 9/35 00:00:00 780kN
    1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.Kh1 f5 3.Qg6+ Kh8 4.Nxd5+ e5 5.Qh6+ Kg8 6.Nb6 Qc7 7.Qg6+ Kh8 8.Qxh5+ Kg8 9.Nxa8 Rxa8 10.Qg6+ Kh8 11.Qxf5
    +- (1.95) Depth: 10/44 00:00:00 3326kN
    1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.Kh1 f5 3.Qg6+ Kh8 4.Nxd5+ e5 5.Qh6+ Kg8 6.Nb6 Qc7 7.Qg6+ Kh8 8.Qxh5+ Kg8 9.Nxa8 Rxa8 10.Qg6+ Kh8 11.Qxf5
    +- (1.95) Depth: 11/44 00:00:01 5823kN
    1.Kh1 Bxg5 2.Qxg5 Ng7 3.Ne4 f5 4.Nxc5 Qe7 5.Qxg6 e5 6.Qh7+ Kf7 7.Rg1 Qxc5 8.Qxg7+ Ke8 9.Bxe5
    +- (4.06) Depth: 11/44 00:00:02 10832kN
    1.Kh1 Bxg5 2.Qxg5 Ng7 3.Ne4 f5 4.Qxg6 dxe4 5.Rg1 Rf7 6.Qh7+ Kf8 7.Qxg7+ Rxg7 8.Rh8+ Ke7 9.Rxg7+ Kd6 10.Rxd7+ Kxd7 11.Rxa8
    +- (4.91) Depth: 12/44 00:00:03 14503kN
    1.Kh1 Bxg5 2.Qxg5 Ne7 3.Rg1 f6 4.Qxh5 Kf7 5.Qh7+ Ke8 6.Qg7 Rd8 7.Rh7 f5 8.Ba3 Qd6
    +- (5.11) Depth: 13/57 00:00:08 38300kN
    1.Kh1 Bxg5 2.Qxg5 Ne7 3.Rg1 f6 4.Qxh5 Kf7 5.Qh7+ Ke8 6.Qg7 Rc8 7.Rh7 Rc7 8.e4 f5 9.exd5 exd5
    +- (5.24) Depth: 14/57 00:00:11 56794kN
    1.Kh1 Bxg5 2.Qxg5 e5 3.Rxh5 Rfd8 4.Qh6 gxh5 5.Rg1+ Qg4 6.Rxg4+ hxg4 7.fxe5 g3 8.hxg3 Nb4 9.e6 fxe6 10.a3 Nxc2 11.Qg6+ Kf8 12.Qxc2
    +- (6.30) Depth: 15/58 00:00:37 198mN
    1.Kh1 Ne5 2.Rxh5 gxh5 3.Ne4 f6 4.gxf6 Kf7 5.Qxh5+ Ng6 6.Rg1 Ke8 7.Rxg6 dxe4 8.Rg7+ Kd8 9.fxe7+ Qxe7 10.Rxe7 Kxe7 11.Qxc5+ Kd7
    +- (6.50) Depth: 16/66 00:01:11 377mN
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Kurt Utzinger
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Surprise Move Some Programs Play

Post by Kurt Utzinger »

rightrook wrote:[d]r4rk1/1p1qbp2/p1n1p1pQ/2pp2Pn/5P2/1PN1P2R/PBPP3P/R5K1 w - - 0 1

I was surprised to see that ....Kh1.... was the "winning move" here.

Any new engines fine anything better?

regards

Robert
Also winning is 1.f5, below the analysis of Naum 4 on Quad Q6600

FEN: r4rk1/1p1qbp2/p1n1p1pQ/2pp2Pn/5P2/1PN1P2R/PBPP3P/R5K1 w - - 0 1

Naum 4:
1/3 00:00 51 1.133 -0.86 Sxd5
2/6 00:01 187 4.065 -1.22 Sxd5 e5
3/10 00:01 513 10.914 -1.65 Sxd5 e5 Sxe7+
4/11 00:01 1.337 27.854 -1.72 Sxd5 e5 Sxe7+ Dxe7
5/12 00:02 2.118 42.360 -1.65 Sxd5 e5 Sxe7+ Dxe7 Te1
5/20 00:02 5.061 93.722 +4.00 Txh5 gxh5 g6 fxg6 Dxg6+
6/22 00:02 8.045 138.706 +0.43 Txh5 gxh5 g6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Kh8
7/24 00:03 11.891 188.746 0.00 Txh5 gxh5 g6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Kh8 Dxh5+
8/21 00:03 17.052 258.363 0.00 Txh5 gxh5 g6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Kh8 Dxh5+ Kg8
9/28 00:03 44.117 572.948 0.00 Txh5 gxh5 g6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Kh8 Dxh5+ Kg8 Dg6+
10/32 00:03 135.882 1.294.114 0.00 Txh5 gxh5 g6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Kh8 Dxh5+ Kg8 Dg6+ Kh8
11/34 00:03 433.067 2.198.309 0.00 Txh5 gxh5 g6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Kh8 Dxh5+ Kg8 Dg6+ Kh8 Dh5+
12/39 00:04 1.088.777 2.361.772 0.00 Txh5 gxh5 g6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Kh8 Dxh5+ Kg8 Dg6+ Kh8 Dh5+
12/47 00:04 8.034.816 2.578.567 +1.62 f5 e5 fxg6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Sg7 Dh7+ Kf7 Tg3 d4 Se4 Ke8
13/50 00:05 14.256.511 2.565.966 +1.83 f5 e5 fxg6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Sg7 Dh7+ Kf7 Tg3 Ke8 Dxg7 Kd8 e4
14/43 00:07 19.328.906 2.645.620 +1.88 f5 e5 fxg6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Sg7 Dh7+ Kf7 Tg3 Sb4 Sa4 De6 Tf1+ Ke8
15/50 00:11 31.942.951 2.762.514 +2.01 f5 e5 fxg6 fxg6 Dxg6+ Sg7 Dh7+ Kf7 Tg3 d4 Se4 Ke8 Dxg7 Df5 d3
16/56 02:02 413.920.818 3.371.184 +3.90 f5 Lxg5 Dxg5 Se5 f6 d4 Dxe5 dxc3 Lxc3 Dd5 Txh5 Tfd8 Dxd5 exd5 Th4 b6
17/46 02:45 564.897.070 3.420.529 +3.96 f5 Lxg5 Dxg5 exf5 Txh5 d4 Th3 Kg7 Dh6+ Kf6 Dh4+ Ke6 Sa4 De7 Dxe7+ Kxe7 Sxc5
18/54 04:41 991.434.949 3.525.415 +3.99 f5 Lxg5 Dxg5 f6 Dxg6+ Dg7 Txh5 Dxg6+ fxg6 Kg7 Th7+ Kxg6 Txb7 Tfb8 Tc7 Tc8 Txc8 Txc8
18/54 09:01 1.997.064.337 3.689.276 +4.99 Kh1 Lxg5 Dxg5 Sg3+ hxg3 f6 Dxg6+ Dg7 Dh5 d4 Sa4 Tad8 e4 b6 Sxb6 f5 exf5 Txf5
19/62 40:32 9.688.520'000 3.983.809 +6.66 Kh1 Lxg5 Dxg5 e5 Txh5 Tfd8 fxe5 Df5 Dxf5 gxf5 Sa4 b5 Sxc5 Kf8 e6 Ke7 exf7 Tf8 Txf5
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