Black to Play and Draw; Can any Engine See It?

[Terry McCracken]

[d]2k5/q1p5/3p4/pPpPp1pp/N1P1Pp2/P4PbP/KQ4P1/8 b - - 0 45

Can any engine find 45..Qb6!!..?

[Edmund]

are you sure white can't win if declining the sacrifice?
At least white should be able to win the pawn on a5

Anyway, any engine that has Blocked pawn detection in it should have no problems to solve it .. there is a good paper about it. http://www.top-5000.nl/ps/Blockage%20De ... ndings.pdf

[AdminX]

Can any engine find 45..Qb6!!..?

This really is a nice position Terry!

are you sure white can't win if declining the sacrifice?
At least white should be able to win the pawn on a5

I don't think White can stop the Draw by declining the sacrifice as there seems to be no way for the queen to get pass the wall of pawns.

[Edmund]

Can any engine find 45..Qb6!!..?

This really is a nice position Terry!

are you sure white can't win if declining the sacrifice?
At least white should be able to win the pawn on a5

I don't think White can stop the Draw by declining the sacrifice as there seems to be no way for the queen to get pass the wall of pawns.

As I said .. task 1 is to capture the a5 pawn .. then it should be easy to get the queen through .. I think that even after a queen-trade white stands better with N vs black colored B

[Christopher Conkie]

Can any engine find 45..Qb6!!..?

This really is a nice position Terry!

are you sure white can't win if declining the sacrifice?
At least white should be able to win the pawn on a5

I don't think White can stop the Draw by declining the sacrifice as there seems to be no way for the queen to get pass the wall of pawns.

As I said .. task 1 is to capture the a5 pawn .. then it should be easy to get the queen through .. I think that even after a queen-trade white stands better with N vs black colored B

[Event "Schilde op U18 6th"]
[Site "Schilde"]
[Date "1970.07.25"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Petrosian, Arshak B"]
[Black "Hazai, Laszlo"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E80"]
[PlyCount "110"]
[EventDate "1970.07.??"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "BEL"]

1. c4 g6 2. Nc3 Bg7 3. d4 Nf6 4. e4 d6 5. f3 e5 6. d5 Na6 7. Be3 Nh5 8. Qd2
Qh4+ 9. Bf2 Qe7 10. O-O-O O-O 11. Be3 f5 12. Bd3 f4 13. Bf2 Bf6 14. Nge2 Bh4
15. Bg1 Bd7 16. Kb1 b6 17. Nc1 Nc5 18. Bc2 a5 19. Bxc5 bxc5 20. Ba4 Bxa4 21.
Nxa4 Rfb8 22. Qc2 Kh8 23. Rd3 Rb4 24. Ra3 Qe8 25. Nd3 g5 26. h3 Nf6 27. Rc1 Kg7
28. b3 Nd7 29. Qd2 Rb7 30. Ndb2 Nb6 31. Ka1 h5 32. Nd1 Nxa4 33. Rxa4 Rb4 34.
Nc3 Qc8 35. Nb5 Bg3 36. Qe2 Kf6 37. Rb1 Ke7 38. a3 Rxa4 39. bxa4 Kd8 40. Nc3
Rb8 41. Rb5 Rxb5 42. axb5 Qa8 43. Na4 Qa7 44. Ka2 Kc8 45. Qb2 Qb6 $1 46. Nxb6+
cxb6 47. h4 gxh4 48. Qd2 h3 49. gxh3 h4 50. Kb3 Kb7 51. Ka4 Ka7 52. Qg2 Kb7 53.
Qb2 Ka7 54. Qc2 Kb7 55. Qc3 Ka7 1/2-1/2

[michiguel]

[d]2k5/q1p5/3p4/pPpPp1pp/N1P1Pp2/P4PbP/KQ4P1/8 b - - 0 45

Can any engine find 45..Qb6!!..?

White wins with 1. Nxb6 cxb6 2. h4

Maybe this position will be more accurate to test (best move Qb6)

[d]2k5/q1p5/3p4/pPpPp1p1/P1N1Pp1p/2P2PbP/KQ4P1/8 b KQkq - 0 1

Miguel

[Christopher Conkie]

[d]2k5/q1p5/3p4/pPpPp1pp/N1P1Pp2/P4PbP/KQ4P1/8 b - - 0 45

Can any engine find 45..Qb6!!..?

White wins with 1. Nxb6 cxb6 2. h4

Maybe this position will be more accurate to test (best move Qb6)

[d]2k5/q1p5/3p4/pPpPp1p1/P1N1Pp1p/2P2PbP/KQ4P1/8 b KQkq - 0 1

Miguel

White does not win Miguel.

In fact those are the moves from the exact game that was played which seems to be blocked and a dead draw. You have overlooked black playing h3 followed by h4..

I have not yet looked at your modified position.

Christopher

[Edmund]

White wins with 1. Nxb6 cxb6 2. h4

1... Qb6 2. Nxb6+ cxb6 3. h4 gxh4 4. any h3 5. gxh3 h4
1... Qb6 2. Nxb6+ cxb6 3. h4 gxh4 4. any h3 5. any other h2
draw

[michiguel]

[d]2k5/q1p5/3p4/pPpPp1pp/N1P1Pp2/P4PbP/KQ4P1/8 b - - 0 45

Can any engine find 45..Qb6!!..?

White wins with 1. Nxb6 cxb6 2. h4

Maybe this position will be more accurate to test (best move Qb6)

[d]2k5/q1p5/3p4/pPpPp1p1/P1N1Pp1p/2P2PbP/KQ4P1/8 b KQkq - 0 1

Miguel

White does not win Miguel.

In fact those are the moves from the exact game that was played which seems to be blocked and a dead draw. You have overlooked black playing h3 followed by h4..

I have not yet looked at your modified position.

Christopher

Yes, I missed h3. Still, Edmund's plan to win a5 seems to be the way to go.

Miguel

[Edmund]

Can any engine find 45..Qb6!!..?

This really is a nice position Terry!

are you sure white can't win if declining the sacrifice?
At least white should be able to win the pawn on a5

I don't think White can stop the Draw by declining the sacrifice as there seems to be no way for the queen to get pass the wall of pawns.

As I said .. task 1 is to capture the a5 pawn .. then it should be easy to get the queen through .. I think that even after a queen-trade white stands better with N vs black colored B

after some analysis with the help of Salva and Chris from the Chesswar channel it seems to be a draw:

1... Qb6 2. Qe2 {to avoid Be1 or Bh2 Bg1 which can help to protect the pawn on a5} Kb7
3. Kb3 {getting the king to a4} Qa7 {black-queen is no longer bound to b6 after the white-queen moved; black king can now support the defence}
4. Nc3 Kb6 5. Ka4 h4 {ensures that later, should pieces be traded, white h4 is possible}
6. Na2 {getting the knight to b3} Qa8 7. Nc1 Qa7 8. Nb3 Qa8
9. Qd2 {queen finally joins the attack} Qa7
10. Qxa5+ {capturing with the knight will pin the knight forever} Qxa5+
11. Nxa5 Be1 {from now on black Bishop can for ever defend a5}

The Knight might be able to capture g5, but that still doesn't help. Exchanging pieces there still would be no chance for white to break through on the kingside although the black king would have to stay on the queen-side

any better suggestions?