Operators for Online events

[Harvey Williamson]

There have been many debates here about online events v events where an operator must be present like the ICGA World Championship.

I know there are various arguments for and against operators. The operators that tend to attend the events where you have to attend in person are generally team members who have a genuine knowledge of the engine they are operating as they have spent 1000's of mandays testing it. With online events like the World Rapidplay that starts tomorrow there seem to be a huge number of programmers or team members that are not available - probably more so than at offline events. There are operators coming out of nowhere who have no connection to the engines 364 days of the year. Even some trying to operate multiple programs.

Is this really what we want?

[swami]

There have been many debates here about online events v events where an operator must be present like the ICGA World Championship.

I know there are various arguments for and against operators. The operators that tend to attend the events where you have to attend in person are generally team members who have a genuine knowledge of the engine they are operating as they have spent 1000's of mandays testing it. With online events like the World Rapidplay that starts tomorrow there seem to be a huge number of programmers or team members that are not available - possibly more so than at offline events. There are operators coming out of nowhere who have no connection to the engines 364 days of the year. Even some trying to operate multiple programs.

Is this really what we want?

No idea who you could be hinting at, but for your information, I've experience operating TwistedLogic and Bright numerous times in online events in the past... besides testing them offline and at ICC.

I decline to operate for Alaric because I had no prior experience with it other than testing it offline.

[hgm]

Not really, but it is less damaging than for "on-site" events. With on-line events like this the possibilities for meaning-full communication with other authors are quite limited anyway, because of the high noise bandwidth of the communication channel...

[Harvey Williamson]

Not really, but it is less damaging than for "on-site" events. With on-line events like this the possibilities for meaning-full communication with other authors are quite limited anyway, because of the high noise bandwidth of the communication channel...

yup the noise level is a pain.

btw Harm have you decided about your Chinese Chess trip?

[Tord Romstad]

There have been many debates here about online events v events where an operator must be present like the ICGA World Championship.

I know there are various arguments for and against operators. The operators that tend to attend the events where you have to attend in person are generally team members who have a genuine knowledge of the engine they are operating as they have spent 1000's of mandays testing it. With online events like the World Rapidplay that starts tomorrow there seem to be a huge number of programmers or team members that are not available - probably more so than at offline events. There are operators coming out of nowhere who have no connection to the engines 364 days of the year. Even some trying to operate multiple programs.

Is this really what we want?

I am not sure what we want, but in my opinion it is very natural: Programmers and permanent team members prefer on-site events where they can meet and interact directly with other programmers. Most ordinary computer chess enthusiasts, on the other hand, aren't sufficiently dedicated to invest time and money going to a real tournament, but enjoy entering online tournaments with some program they like.

It's good to have both sorts of tournaments. They serve different purposes, and are interesting to different audiences.

[hgm]

btw Harm have you decided about your Chinese Chess trip?

Yes, I will definitely go, when the intended invitation would become final. And perhaps even if it doesn't. But the championship is only planned for September next year, and they haven't even settled on an exact date, as far as I know.

[Harvey Williamson]

There have been many debates here about online events v events where an operator must be present like the ICGA World Championship.

I know there are various arguments for and against operators. The operators that tend to attend the events where you have to attend in person are generally team members who have a genuine knowledge of the engine they are operating as they have spent 1000's of mandays testing it. With online events like the World Rapidplay that starts tomorrow there seem to be a huge number of programmers or team members that are not available - probably more so than at offline events. There are operators coming out of nowhere who have no connection to the engines 364 days of the year. Even some trying to operate multiple programs.

Is this really what we want?

I am not sure what we want, but in my opinion it is very natural: Programmers and permanent team members prefer on-site events where they can meet and interact directly with other programmers. Most ordinary computer chess enthusiasts, on the other hand, aren't sufficiently dedicated to invest time and money going to a real tournament, but enjoy entering online tournaments with some program they like.

It's good to have both sorts of tournaments. They serve different purposes, and are interesting to different audiences.

If a programmer or one of his close team members can not be bothered to turn up to an online tournament or any type of event - should the program be allowed to enter?

Devil's Advocate Regards,
Harvey

[Tord Romstad]

If a programmer or one of his close team members can not be bothered to turn up to an online tournament or any type of event - should the program be allowed to enter?

That's for the tournament organiser to decide, but in my opinion, it should. I think the main point of events like the ACCA tournament is to give ordinary computer chess enthusiasts with limited time and money for their hobby a chance to meet and have fun and play with their favorite programs. It's like a big, collective basement tournament.

Of course I wouldn't want all tournaments to be like that, but there are plenty of tournaments of the type we like, at least for those of us who are lucky enough to live in Europe.

[hgm]

That is a bit of an academic question. I can designate anyone as a "close team member", and who is going to disprove it? Furthermore, these on-line events are almost completely automated. I can register as an author, start up my computer and go out sipping drinks beside the swimming pool all day, now and dan having a peek through the open garden doors to see if my computer hasn't crashed yet... (Come to think of it, this sounds like a good idea... )

[Zach Wegner]

Personally, I'm only really interested in authors competing, not even team members. It's OK to talk to book makers, etc., but I strongly prefer to talk to the creator of the engine. With the kind of "participation" that is encouraged, with many authors just finding someone random to run their program, you might as well just download a bunch of free engines and run them.

Having an operator for hardware is one thing, and I have done that before in the past. But I was always there at the event to watch and chat. I honestly can't see the appeal of entering a tournament when you won't even be there to see it. There's really not much prestige in these tournaments, they're just for fun.