How to lose from +8.12 :-)

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hgm
Posts: 28387
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Full name: H G Muller

How to lose from +8.12 :-)

Post by hgm »

Code: Select all

[Event "ChessWar XV F test 40m/5'"]
[Site "DEVILLE1-5D9C28"]
[Date "2009.10.31"]
[Round "12.3"]
[White "FireFly 2.5.7b3_x64"]
[Black "Micro-Max 4.8_PII"]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]
[Annotator "6. +0.32   1... +0.04"]
[Number "247"]


1. e4 Nc6 {+0.04/8 5} 2. d4 d5 {+0.07/8 7} 3. e5 Bf5 {+0.01/8 10} 4. c3 Qd7
{-0.03/8 11} 5. Ne2 O-O-O {+0.11/8 11} 6. Ng3 {+0.32/11 6} Be6 {-0.19/8 5}
7. Bb5 {+0.62/11 10} a6 {-0.10/8 5} 8. Bxc6 Qxc6 {+0.05/9 4} 9. O-O g6
{+0.28/8 6} 10. Ne2 {+0.40/10 10} f6 {+0.27/8 5} 11. Na3 {+0.44/10 10} Nh6
{+0.29/10 10} 12. Nc2 {+0.66/9 10} Nf5 {+0.31/9 17} 13. Nf4 {+0.82/9 10}
fxe5 {+0.23/10 8} 14. dxe5 {+0.66/10 10} Bf7 {+0.19/10 17} 15. Nd4 Nxd4
{+0.32/10 4} 16. cxd4 {+0.65/10 5} e6 {+0.31/10 7} 17. Nd3 {+0.93/10 8} Be7
{+0.23/10 4} 18. Qf3 {+0.80/10 5} Qe8 {+0.22/11 9} 19. Bh6 {+0.90/10 8} g5
{+0.28/10 5} 20. Bg7 {+1.02/11 8} Rg8 {+0.27/10 4} 21. Bf6 {+1.04/10 5} Rg6
{+0.33/10 6} 22. Rac1 {+1.16/10 8} a5 {+0.26/10 16} 23. Nc5 {+1.49/10 8} c6
{+0.16/9 6} 24. Qc3 {+2.48/10 8} b6 {-0.83/11 7} 25. Nxe6 {+2.92/11 4} Bxf6
{-0.90/12 4} 26. Qxc6+ {+2.67/11 4} Qxc6 {-0.99/13 3} 27. Rxc6+ Kd7
{-1.03/12 6} 28. Rd6+ {+2.49/11 4} Ke8 {-0.96/12 9} 29. Nxd8 {+2.36/12 4}
Bxd8 {-0.11/12 4} 30. Rxg6 {+2.26/12 4} hxg6 {-0.10/13 4} 31. f3
{+2.57/12 7} b5 {-0.01/12 6} 32. Kf2 {+2.60/11 7} b4 {+0.04/12 5} 33. a3
{+2.70/11 7} b3 {+0.11/13 3} 34. Rc1 {+2.64/11 5} Kf8 {+0.04/14 7} 35. Ke3
{+3.00/11 7} Ke7 {+0.02/13 2.9} 36. Rc6 {+3.18/12 7} Be8 {+0.01/15 4} 37.
Rd6 {+3.28/12 5} Bf7 {+0.01/16 4} 38. Kd3 {+3.42/12 5} a4 {+0.00/15 7} 39.
h3 {+3.24/13 5} Bc7 {+0.03/15 7} 40. Ra6 {+3.08/13 8} Be8 {-0.06/15 4} 41.
Kc3 {+3.32/12 5} Bb5 {-0.55/17 8} 42. Ra7 {+4.28/12 5} Kd8 {-0.74/17 7} 43.
Kb4 {+4.48/12 3} Bd7 {-0.75/16 4} 44. Kc5 {+5.54/11 5} Kc8 {-0.73/16 5} 45.
Ra6 {+5.31/11 5} Be8 {-0.78/16 8} 46. Ra8+ {+5.60/12 5} Bb8 {-0.68/19 7}
47. Kxd5 {+5.32/13 3} Kb7 {-0.09/17 4} 48. Rxb8+ Kxb8 {-0.33/19 6} 49. e6
{+5.21/12 3} Kc7 {+0.25/15 5} 50. Ke5 {+5.90/13 3} Bb5 {-0.44/14 5} 51. d5
{+7.06/12 5} Kd8 {-0.52/15 7} 52. d6 {+7.29/12 5} Bc4 {-0.60/15 7} 53. Kf6
{+7.74/12 5} Ke8 {-1.22/16 6} 54. e7 {+7.93/13 4} Bb5 {-1.27/16 5} 55. Kxg5
{+7.60/13 4} Kf7 {-1.50/16 11} 56. f4 {+8.12/13 4} Bf1 {+0.06/16 9} 57. g4
{+7.20/14 4} Bxh3 {+0.24/17 7} 58. f5 {+5.90/14 5} gxf5 {+0.29/20 5} 59.
Kxf5 {+5.86/13 4} Bg2 {+0.32/20 6} 60. Ke5 {+5.69/13 4} Bc6 {+0.28/20 5}
61. g5 {+4.02/14 6} Bd7 {+0.77/21 7} 62. Ke4 {+2.62/14 7} Kg7 {+0.31/21 7}
63. Kd5 {+0.07/14 11} Kg6 {+0.81/20 8} 64. Kc5 {+0.00/15 13} Kxg5
{+0.76/21 9} 65. Kb6 {+0.00/15 7} Kf5 {+0.68/22 6} 66. Kb7 {+0.00/16 32}
Ke5 {+3.49/23 9} 67. Kc7 {-0.72/16 8} Ke6 {+3.56/24 6} 68. Kb6
{-4.26/15 13} Kxd6 {+3.69/23 6} 69. Ka5 {-4.47/15 9} Kc5 {+8.81/23 8} 70.
Ka6 {-4.22/15 7} Kc4 {+9.30/24 11} 71. Kb6 {-1.23/14 12} Kd3 {+9.77/24 8}
72. Kb7 {+0.00/13 9} Be8 {+12.99/23 21} 73. Kc7 {-10.63/13 15} Kc2
{+13.06/22 5} 74. Kd8 {-11.93/11 17} Bb5 {+16.42/21 6} 75. Kc7
{-13.73/11 13} Kxb2 {+16.49/21 11} 76. Kb6 {-14.87/10 17} Be8 {+16.54/20 9}
77. Kc7 {-249.67/10 6} Kxa3 {+16.55/18 5} 78. Kc8 {-249.69/9 4} Bf7
{+16.71/18 8} 79. Kd8 {-249.70/8 17} b2 {+16.80/19 11}
{White resigns} 0-1
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Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9773
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: How to lose from +8.12 :-)

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb »

Easy,when a nasty bug is engaged....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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hgm
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Full name: H G Muller

Re: How to lose from +8.12 :-)

Post by hgm »

Well, this looks more like a mis-evaluation of connected passers than as a bug. Because the score evaporates quite slowly.

[d] 8/4Pk2/3P2p1/1b4K1/p4P2/Pp5P/1P4P1/8 b - - 0 56
FireFly figures +8.12 for white after 56. f4
Uri Blass
Posts: 10890
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: How to lose from +8.12 :-)

Post by Uri Blass »

hgm wrote:Well, this looks more like a mis-evaluation of connected passers than as a bug.

[d] 8/4Pk2/3P2p1/1b4K1/p4P2/Pp5P/1P4P1/8 b - - 0 56
FireFly figures +8.12 for white after 56. f4
56.f4 is not the best move but this move is also winning for white
White is clearly winning after 56....Bf1 57.h4 but for some reason firefly does not search deep and cannot see 57.h4 and choose 57.g4 that is a drawing move
and later firefly is choosing 60.Ke5 that seems to be a losing move instead of 60.g5 that probably draws the game.

Uri
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hgm
Posts: 28387
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:06 am
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Full name: H G Muller

Re: How to lose from +8.12 :-)

Post by hgm »

Oh, I am sure that FireFly must have made some mistakes. (After all, the title was "How to lose from +8.12", and not "How to win from -8.12". :wink: ) But nevertheless +8.12 seems an over-evaluation, if you can lose it by merely not searching deep enough. A true +8 position (i.e. having Q against P, with no compensation) should easily win even against perfect play with a 5-ply search. Especially at such a late game stage.