The rights of customers

[Sylwy]

WARNING: this is a very serious post !

Hi all !

We all heared here a lot of about the rights of programmers and companies selling chess programs.Not a single word about the right of customers.
Some examples:

1.Rybka 3
I have bought online Rybka 3.It's a product with some bugs. Any information about bugs in Rybka 3 page.Take a look here-please:
http://www.rybkachess.com/index.php?aus ... ease+notes
After 1 1/2 years any update.
Who defends my rights ? Nobody ?
Vas lived-at the time-in Hungary,now in Poland. Tomorrow maybe in Romania.He has an American-Czech citizenship.Rybka 3 was selled online by ShareIt (Germany), ChessOK (United Kingdom), and not only.A true Babel Tower !
Who defends my rights ? Nobody ?

2.Chessmaster Grandmaster Edition
I have bought this product in a market here in Romania.Like customer of a physical product I have only two rights here:
-to change directly the product;
-repairs in the warranty period
Nobody heared here about bugs !
Chessmaster 11 is a super-buggy product.After two updates only around 10% of bugs were removed.Take a look to the tutorials-please !
OK ! You tell me: why buy a such product.UbiSoft nothing say us about bugs.Take a look here-please:
http://chessmaster.us.ubi.com/xi/pcFeatures.php
Who defend our rights ? Nobody ?

3.Fritz 11
I preordered and have bought Fritz 11 directly from ChessBase Hamburg.
Were a lot of updates but Fritz 11 is still a buggy product ( ask please Michael Diosi-he's right here ).And the life of Fritz 11 is finished.
ChessBase even didn't want to respond to some emails.
A single word from ChessBase about bugs in this product.Take a look -please:
http://www.chessbase.com/shop/product.a ... ser=&coin=
Who defends our rights ? Nobody ?

I suspect that we'll never hear here something about the rights of customers.Why ? The sponsors aren't the customers !
The rights of customers ?
Give me your money and..................bye,bye !

Regards,
Silvian

[Rolf]

To understand the simplicity in the process it requires something that I have. As a mathematician I examine the numbers. 3. 11. These are high numbers. What does it mean? That the authors were still working on their products in progress. But that means that only in the longer run the old bugs are corrected by next versions. Say 5. Or 15. Now you seem to say that then the authors should wait until their higher versions are ready, to avoid the older bugs. But this is a contradiction in itself, because also the higher version numbers will have their bugs - and if they still live, these numbers, the bugs are alive too. That is called the *Rolf's Law* of perpetual business. It's a business about chess and new ideas to play and train it with machine help. Even if a version were without a single bug we would buy the next versions and we do not fear the little bugs. Even we humans have bugs in our system. Bugs are the salt of this Earth. Withgout bugs we were clones.

[Sylwy]

To understand the simplicity in the process it requires something that I have. As a mathematician I examine the numbers. 3. 11. These are high numbers. What does it mean? That the authors were still working on their products in progress. But that means that only in the longer run the old bugs are corrected by next versions. Say 5. Or 15. Now you seem to say that then the authors should wait until their higher versions are ready, to avoid the older bugs. But this is a contradiction in itself, because also the higher version numbers will have their bugs - and if they still live, these numbers, the bugs are alive too. That is called the *Rolf's Law* of perpetual business. It's a business about chess and new ideas to play and train it with machine help. Even if a version were without a single bug we would buy the next versions and we do not fear the little bugs. Even we humans have bugs in our system. Bugs are the salt of this Earth. Withgout bugs we were clones.

Hi Rolf !

You are my man ! I like your demonstration ! I like also to pay -for the begenning- only 1 Euro / each chess program, the rest at the last version !
Agreed also:
''Even we humans have bugs in our system." Yes ! We were educated to love money !
" Bugs are the salt of this Earth." Yes ! And the money are the pepper.
"Withgout bugs we were clones."Yeah.......and the genetics loses the object !

Sad.

Silvian

PS:
Rolf's law of perpetual business= give me your money, much money,much,much money...................I give you bugs ! So sorry ! Wait for the next release !

[Rolf]

Hi Rolf !

You are my man ! I like your demonstration ! I like also to pay -for the begenning- only 1 Euro / each chess program, the rest at the last version !
Agreed also:
''Even we humans have bugs in our system." Yes ! We were educated to love money !
" Bugs are the salt of this Earth." Yes ! And the money are the pepper.
"Withgout bugs we were clones."Yeah.......and the genetics loses the object !

Sad.

Silvian

PS:
Rolf's law of perpetual business= give me your money, much money,much,much money...................I give you bugs ! So sorry ! Wait for the next release !

Sad is that we have experts who believe in the bugless software for million different configurations. Sad is the delusion of low price economy. Vasiks Rybka should cost 500 € instead of 30, because then even fools would understand what it is worth. Look what human trainers cost you. But ok, I have mercy, in your region a kid costs only 50 €, but ok, in Brazil etc. it costs nothing. So I dont want to argue about chess software prices. The third world must steal software on the net willy-nilly.

[Sylwy]

But ok, I have mercy, in your region a kid costs only 50 €, but ok, in Brazil etc. it costs nothing. So I dont want to argue about chess software prices. The third world must steal software on the net willy-nilly.

When a Princeton ( ) finished the proofs starts the affronts ? And then the armed intervention ?
How to discuss not about a 50 Euros kid sealled here by a poor gypsy but about the westmen ( sometimes very educated ) in jail here for pedophilye ?
How about to discuss here sometimes about the men from the East buying software (being not very rich ) and about the men of the rich West stealing software ( and not only ) ?
Princeton's interdictions ?
Or only a "goim" problem ?

[CRoberson]

On the subject of ChessMaster 11. IMHO and experience (being a software developer), low quality is exactly what you get when you ship
development out to 3rd world countries for a price cut.

Outsourcing development for cheap labor is, in part, a direct result of all the cloning and such.

There was a time when commercial chess programs sold in volume. Volume sales help to keep prices down and development going.
When the number of sales drops, you can cut costs which can lead to lower quality or you can cut the product.

Why have volume sales dropped? They are competing with free programs that are 2800+. IMHO, a binary for such programs should not
be free. Also, they are competing with all the software pirating practices that go on.

On Rybka 3. I have it. Bought it about 7 months ago (the single processor version). I have not noticed any bugs.

Guys, you can't continue having high end quality commercial software and allow software piracy to continue. Look at the CPU
industry; it is still going strong with high quality and good pricing. Why? Nobody is cheating that industry.

[Damir]

Because they sell hardware, not software. It is completely different situation....

[CRoberson]

Because they sell hardware, not software. It is completely different situation....

Yes, it is different. The laws are different therefore you can't cheat it. People are cheating the software industry thanks to bad laws. The customers of software are worse off because of it.

There are situations where Reverse engineering is legal, but there are situations where it is illegal.

[mariaclara]

Hi Damir,

maybe it's time we remind people, this thread is about

The rights of customers...

[Damir]

Hi Marie

Yes I agree completely. It is time we customers get something free, instead of buying a buggy piece of software, and have our money taken with no refund...