which engines play after 1.d4 d5 ....2.c4 ?

[Togga]

which engines play after 1.d4 d5 ....2.c4 without opening book at timecontrol 2min +2sec or longer thinking time?

or is the move 2.c4 bad?

this cant be.

[Togga]

Philou 3.12 do it, and which engines else?


[White "Philou 3.12"]
[Black "Gosu 0.16"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D20"]
[Opening "QGA"]
[Variation "3.e3"]
[TimeControl "60+1"]

1.d4 {+0.17/10} d5 {-0.11/8} 2.c4 {+0.36/9} dxc4 {+0.06/8} 3.e3 {+0.28/8} b5
{+0.09/6} 4.a4 {+0.92/9} b4 {-0.21/7} 5.Bxc4 {+1.02/9} Nf6 {-0.33/7} 6.Nf3 {+1.00/9} e6
{-0.33/8} 7.Ne5 {+0.91/8} Bb7 {-0.08/6} 8.Bb5+ {+0.57/8} c6 {-0.03/8} 9.Be2 {+0.50/8}
Nbd7 {+0.14/6} 10.Nd2 {+0.41/8} Nxe5 {+0.09/8} 11.dxe5 {+0.45/9} Nd7 {-0.09/7}
12.Nc4 {+0.55/8} Ba6 {-0.02/7} 13.f4 {+0.35/8} Nc5 {-0.01/7} 14.O-O {+0.36/8} Qxd1
{+0.22/6} 15.Rxd1 {-0.19/10} Rd8 {+0.23/8} 16.Rxd8+ {-0.18/9} Kxd8 {+0.20/10} 17.Bd2
{+0.13/11} Ne4 {+0.22/8} 18.Nd6 {-0.02/10} Bxe2 {+0.44/9} 19.Nxe4 {+0.04/10} Bd3 {+0.41/9}
20.Nd6 {+0.17/11} Bxd6 {+0.51/10} 21.exd6 {-0.07/11} a5 {+0.53/10} 22.Rd1 {-0.18/10}
Bg6 {+0.80/9} 23.Kf2 {0.00/9} Kc8 {+0.65/8} 24.Kf3 {0.00/9} Kd7 {+0.36/8} 25.e4
{-0.15/9} f5 {+0.95/8} 26.Kg3 {-0.30/10} fxe4 {+0.79/9} 27.Be3 {-0.26/10} Rf8 {+0.76/9}
28.Bd4 {-0.05/9} e3 {+0.97/8} 29.Bxe3 {+0.13/10} Bc2 {+0.86/8} 30.Rc1 {0.00/10} Bxa4
{+0.64/9} 31.Bb6 {+0.04/10} Rf5 {+1.03/9} 32.Ra1 {+0.09/10} Bb3 {+1.02/9} 33.Bxa5
{-0.41/10} c5 {+0.98/9} 34.Bc7 {-0.06/10} Rd5 {+1.38/9} 35.Ra7 {-0.01/9} Rd3+ {+1.65/7}
36.Kf2 {-0.05/9} Rd2+ {+1.15/8} 37.Ke3 {0.00/10} Rxg2 {+0.88/8} 38.Bb8+ {0.00/8} Kc8
{+0.83/8} 39.d7+ {+1.42/10} Kd8 {0.00/9} 40.Bd6 {+1.98/10} Rc2 {-0.65/8} 41.Bf8
{+1.95/11} Ba4 {-1.42/8} 42.Rxa4 {+1.75/11} Kxd7 {-1.74/10} 43.Bxg7 {+2.02/10} Rxh2
{-1.84/9} 44.Ra7+ {+2.13/9} Kc6 {-1.64/9} 45.Be5 {+2.13/10} Kd5 {-1.67/11} 46.Rd7+
{+2.15/10} Kc4 {-1.67/11} 47.Kf3 {+2.06/10} Rh1 {-1.67/10} 48.Re7 {+2.14/10} Kd5 {-1.38/9}
49.Kg2 {+2.11/11} Rh6 {-1.63/10} 50.Rd7+ {+2.02/9} Kc6 {-1.63/11} 51.Rc7+ {+2.17/9}
Kd5 {-1.64/12} 52.b3 {+2.02/10} Rh4 {-1.64/11} 53.Rd7+ {+2.00/9} Ke4 {-1.64/11}
54.Re7 {+2.03/10} Rh6 {-1.64/11} 55.Rc7 {+2.08/10} Kd5 {-1.63/10} 56.Rd7+ {+2.08/9}
Ke4 {-1.64/11} 57.Bd6 {+2.19/10} Rh5 {-1.64/9} 58.Rc7 {+2.08/11} Kd4 {-1.71/9}
59.Be5+ {+2.10/11} Kd5 {-1.63/10} 60.Ra7 {+2.09/10} Rh6 {-1.63/9} 61.Ra8 {+2.09/9} Ke4
{-1.64/10} 62.Ra5 {+2.02/10} Kd5 {-1.63/10} 63.Ra6 {+2.02/11} Ke4 {-1.63/10} 64.Rc6
{+2.02/12} Kd5 {-1.63/10} 65.Rb6 {+2.00/12} Ke4 {-1.63/10} 66.Rb5 {+2.02/11} Rg6+
{-1.64/11} 67.Kf2 {+1.99/12} Kd5 {-1.64/11} 68.Rb8 {+2.02/12} Rh6 {-1.64/10} 69.Kg2
{+1.97/11} Ke4 {-1.64/10} 70.Bd6 {+1.98/11} Kd4 {-1.48/7} 71.Rc8 {+2.03/10} Kc3 {-1.52/9}
72.Rxc5+ {+2.56/10} Kxb3 {-1.47/9} 73.Rb5 {+2.60/10} Kc4 {-1.08/8} 74.Rxb4+ {+2.95/10}
Kd3 {-1.11/8} 75.Be5 {+3.04/9} Ke2 {-1.32/9} 76.Kg3 {+3.14/10} Rg6+ {-1.35/8}
77.Kh4 {+3.25/10} Ke3 {-1.69/9} 78.Rb7 {+3.40/11} Rh6+ {-1.77/9} 79.Kg5 {+3.40/12}
Rg6+ {-1.80/10} 80.Kh5 {+3.39/13} Ke4 {-1.80/9} 81.Rxh7 {+3.40/13} Rg2 {-1.82/10}
82.Ra7 {+3.39/13} Kf5 {-1.83/9} 83.Rf7+ {+3.39/13} Ke4 {-1.69/1} 84.Kh4 {+3.40/13} Rg1
{-1.82/11} 85.Re7 {+3.40/13} Kf5 {-1.80/10} 86.Re8 {+3.43/13} Rh1+ {-1.80/9} 87.Kg3
{+3.51/5} Rd1 {-1.81/9} 88.Kf3 {+3.61/11} Rd3+ {-1.80/11} 89.Ke2 {+3.61/13} Rg3
{-1.80/11} 90.Rd8 {+3.61/12} Rh3 {-1.81/9} 91.Rd1 {+3.61/12} Kg4 {-1.79/8} 92.Rd3
{+3.62/12} Rh1 {-1.85/9} 93.Ke3 {+3.63/12} Re1+ {-1.89/9} 94.Kd4 {+3.71/10} Rc1 {-1.96/9}
95.Ke4 {+3.92/10} Re1+ {-1.98/8} 96.Re3 {+4.00/12} Rf1 {-2.02/9} 97.Re2 {+4.02/11} Rg1
{-2.31/9} 98.Bd4 {+4.04/10} Rg3 {-2.53/10} 99.Rc2 {+4.59/10} Kh3 {-2.52/8} 100.Rc3
{+8.00/13} Rxc3 {-2.66/11} 101.Bxc3 {+13.66/15} Kg2 {-2.81/10} 102.Bb4 {+14.50/14} Kf2
{-12.16/12} 103.Bd6 {+14.96/14} Ke2 {-12.16/12} 104.Ke5 {+15.07/14} Ke3 {-12.16/13} {1-0
Arena Adjudication} 1-0

[Aaron Becker]

I fired up daydreamer to see if it would ever pick c2c4. It got to depth 20 or so and consistently preferred c1f4, so I concluded it wouldn't be picking c2c4. However, I forgot to turn it off, and when I got back from a meeting and came back to my computer, I found that it had switched to c2c4 at depth 25, 3 billion nodes later.

[Togga]

so the human chess grandmasters are right? the best move is here 2.c4?

[Brunetti]

so the human chess grandmasters are right? the best move is here 2.c4?

"Best" has to be explained. It's the best try to keep an opening advantage/initiative and avoiding early equalization by Black. Indeed, if we had a 32 man tablebase, its value should have been 0.0, like 2.Bf4 2.Nf3 and all other moves, except 2.Bh6 I think

Alex

[Mincho Georgiev]

If C4 was the best move after 1.d4 ...d5, the transpositions in chess would be irrelevant.

[Dann Corbit]

which engines play after 1.d4 d5 ....2.c4 without opening book at timecontrol 2min +2sec or longer thinking time?

or is the move 2.c4 bad?

this cant be.

This is the CAP record for that position:
[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3p4/3P4/8/PPP1PPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - acd 26; ce 32 pv c4 e6 Nc3 Nf6 Nf3 c5 cxd5 cxd4 Qxd4 exd5 e4 Nc6 Bb5 dxe4 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Ng5 Ke8 Ncxe4 Nxe4 Nxe4 Be6 O-O a6 Bxc6+ bxc6 Rd1 Rd8 Bg5 f6; pm c4 {90009} Nf3 {19258} Bf4 {2344} e4 {2182} Bg5 {1227} Nc3 {574} g3 {445} e3 {74} f3 {40} c3 {16} a3 {14};

The annotations in curly braces after each individual predicted move contain the counts of how often it was played in my "special database" of high quality games.

Most extremely strong engines will play c4, given at least 1/2 hour think time.

[Togga]

the most chess grandmasters play mostly 2.c4.
so 2.c4 should be the best:)

[Togga]

but it is good that not all engines play 2.c4 because it would be very boring when all engines play always the same moves.

[Hood]

which engines play after 1.d4 d5 ....2.c4 without opening book at timecontrol 2min +2sec or longer thinking time?

or is the move 2.c4 bad?

this cant be.

I am not playing 2. c4 . I prefer 2. Bf4.

rgds
chris