Common usage of win/loss/draw

[stevenaaus]

I'm adding player win/loss/drawn subtotals to Scid vs. PC crosstable
and i'm not quite sure about the common notation.
Is the order

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1.  +won -loss =draw
2.  +won =draw -loss

I think it's the first... but in the player info window, it is already shown the second way.
So if the first is common, perhaps i should change the player info to use the this way also ?

[stevenaaus]

For example

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Women's World Rapid Championship
Batumi. Georgia, 2012.05.31 - 2012.06.03
Average Rating: 2426
                             Rtng    Score       1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11    Perf Chg
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: Stefanova, Antoaneta     2518   8.5 / 11   25w+ 21b= 29w+  3w+ 10b=  8b+  2w= 18w+  4b+  5w=  6b=   2699 +24  (+6 -0 =5)
 2: Koneru, Humpy            2589   8.0 / 11   24w+  3b= 20w+ 18b+ 17w= 10b+  1b=  4w-  9w+  7b= 11b+   2630  +4  (+6 -1 =4)
 3: Kosteniuk, Alexandra     2457   8.0 / 11   38b+  2w=  5w+  1b-  7w+ 19b+ 17w= 12w+ 11b+  4w- 18b+   2672 +32  (+7 -2 =2)
 4: Lahno, Kateryna          2546   8.0 / 11   37b= 32w+ 22b= 30w+ 13w+ 17b= 20w+  2b+  1w-  3b+  5w=   2639 +12  (+6 -1 =4)
 5: Muzychuk, Anna           2598   7.5 / 11   15b= 49w+  3b- 38w+  9w+  6b= 10w= 20b+ 17w+  1b=  4b=   2558  -6  (+5 -1 =5)
 6: Harika, Dronavalli       2508   7.5 / 11   32b= 37w= 23b= 49w+ 15b+  5w= 11b- 30w+ 10b+ 18w+  1w=   2566  +8  (+5 -1 =5)
 7: Dzagnidze, Nana          2547   7.0 / 11   23w+ 22b= 18w- 37w+  3b- 29b= 39w+ 24b+  8w+  2w= 13b=   2561  +1  (+5 -2 =4)
 8: Zhao, Xue                2549   6.5 / 11   11b+ 30w+ 10b- 22w+ 12b+  1w- 18b- 27w+  7b- 21w+ 15b=   2534  -2  (+6 -4 =1)
 9: Guo, Qi                  2360   6.5 / 11   14b- 16w+ 26b+ 31w+  5b- 22w+ 12b= 21w+  2b- 11w- 27b+   2561 +31  (+6 -4 =1)
10: Cramling, Pia            2478   6.5 / 11   34w+ 50b+  8w+ 17b=  1w=  2w-  5b= 19b=  6w- 24b= 23w+   2544 +11  (+4 -2 =5)
11: Tan, Zhongyi             2430   6.5 / 11    8w- 47b+ 45w+ 19b- 46w+ 16b+  6w+ 17b=  3w-  9b+  2w-   2527 +15  (+6 -4 =1)
12: Paehtz, Elisabeth        2491   6.5 / 11   50b- 33w+ 36b+ 21w+  8w- 13b+  9w=  3b- 15b= 14w= 17w+   2491  +0  (+5 -3 =3)
13: Javakhishvili, Lela      2449   6.5 / 11   45w+ 19b= 39w= 14w+  4b- 12w- 23b= 33b+ 29w+ 17b=  7w=   2514 +10  (+4 -2 =5)
14: Zhu, Chen                2491   6.5 / 11    9w+ 17b- 25w+ 13b- 40w+ 20b- 24w- 36b+ 23w+ 12b= 22w+   2484  -1  (+6 -4 =1)
15: Zhukova, Natalia         2442   6.5 / 11    5w= 29b- 41w+ 32b+  6w- 39b- 45w+ 16b+ 12w= 19b+  8w=   2527 +13  (+5 -3 =3)
16: Kosintseva, Tatiana      2532   6.5 / 11   17w-  9b- 42b= 48w+ 49b+ 11w- 28b+ 15w- 37b+ 20w+ 25b+   2428 -15  (+6 -4 =1)
17: Huang, Qian              2417   6.0 / 11   16b+ 14w+ 31b+ 10w=  2b=  4w=  3b= 11w=  5b- 13w= 12b-   2541 +20  (+3 -2 =6)
18: Khurtsidze, Nino         2456   6.0 / 11   42b= 35w+  7b+  2w- 31b= 27w+  8w+  1b- 19w+  6b-  3w-   2530 +12  (+5 -4 =2)
19: Gunina, Valentina        2530   6.0 / 11   28b+ 13w= 21b= 11w+ 20b=  3w- 31b+ 10w= 18b- 15w- 30b+   2481  -8  (+4 -3 =4)
20: Wang, Jue                2364   6.0 / 11   46w+ 26w+  2b- 39b+ 19w= 14w+  4b-  5w- 21b= 16b- 29w+   2539 +26  (+5 -4 =2)
21: Mkrtchian, Lilit         2449   6.0 / 11   44b+  1w= 19w= 12b- 29w= 45b+ 30w+  9b- 20w=  8b- 24w+   2460  +1  (+4 -3 =4)
22: Ushenina, Anna           2454   5.5 / 11   43b+  7w=  4w=  8b- 25w+  9b- 29w- 46b+ 27b= 32w+ 14b-   2445  -2  (+4 -4 =3)
23: Arakhamia-Grant, Ketevan 2426   5.5 / 11    7b- 43w+  6w= 40b= 32w+ 30b- 13w= 39b+ 14b- 26w+ 10b-   2459  +6  (+4 -4 =3)
24: Batsiashvili, Nino       2436   5.5 / 11    2b- 38w- 43b+ 42w+ 30b- 34w+ 14b+  7w- 31b+ 10w= 21b-   2441  +1  (+5 -5 =1)
25: Melia, Salome            2410   5.5 / 11    1b- 44w+ 14b- 47w+ 22b- 26b= 46w= 38w+ 30b= 35b+ 16w-   2442  +6  (+4 -4 =3)
26: Danielian, Elina         2484   5.5 / 11   33w+ 20b-  9w- 34b- 47b+ 25w= 38b- 42w+ 41b+ 23b- 40w+   2369 -18  (+5 -5 =1)
27: Pogonina, Natalija       2447   5.5 / 11   48w+ 31w- 49b= 29b= 34w+ 18b- 36w+  8b- 22w= 33b+  9w-   2370 -12  (+4 -4 =3)
28: Khukhashvili, Sopiko     2414   5.5 / 11   19w- 45b- 48b= 33w- 35b+ 42b+ 16w- 43b= 36w+ 31w= 38b+   2389  -4  (+4 -4 =3)
29: Gvetadze, Sofio          2338   5.0 / 11   35b= 15w+  1b- 27w= 21b=  7w= 22b+ 31w= 13b- 30w= 20b-   2426 +13  (+2 -3 =6)
30: Muzychuk, Mariya         2456   5.0 / 11   47w+  8b- 50w+  4b- 24w+ 23w+ 21b-  6b- 25w= 29b= 19w-   2407  -8  (+4 -5 =2)
31: Chiburdanidze, Maia      2500   5.0 / 11   36w+ 27b+ 17w-  9b- 18w= 37b+ 19w- 29b= 24w- 28b= 35w=   2385 -18  (+3 -4 =4)
32: Cori T, Deysi            2386   5.0 / 11    6w=  4b- 35b+ 15w- 23b- 38w- 49b+ 45w+ 40w+ 22b- 34w=   2364  -3  (+4 -5 =2)
33: Ding, Yixin              2353   5.0 / 11   26b- 12b- 47w- 28b+ 44w+ 40b+ 37w= 13w- 39b+ 27w- 43b=   2381  +4  (+4 -5 =2)
34: Purtseladze, Maka        2348   5.0 / 11   10b- 40b- 44w+ 26w+ 27b- 24b- 43w= 35b- 47w+ 39w+ 32b=   2380  +6  (+4 -5 =2)
35: Krush, Irina             2457   5.0 / 11   29w= 18b- 32w- 41b- 28w- 48b+ 50b+ 34w+ 38b+ 25w- 31b=   2339 -19  (+4 -5 =2)
36: Lomineishvili, Maia      2366   5.0 / 11   31b- 48w+ 12w- 45b= 41w+ 46b= 27b- 14w- 28b- 47w+ 44w+   2362  +0  (+4 -5 =2)
37: Kovalevskaya, Ekaterina  2417   4.5 / 11    4w=  6b= 46w+  7b- 39w= 31w- 33b= 40b= 16w- 44b= 41w=   2396  -2  (+1 -3 =7)
38: Mammadova, Gulnar        2345   4.5 / 11    3w- 24b+ 40w=  5b- 45w- 32b+ 26w+ 25b- 35w- 46b+ 28w-   2381  +6  (+4 -6 =1)
39: Socko, Monika            2484   4.5 / 11   41b= 42w+ 13b= 20w- 37b= 15w+  7b- 23w- 33w- 34b- 46w+   2346 -22  (+3 -5 =3)
40: Matnadze, Ana            2446   4.5 / 11   49b- 34w+ 38b= 23w= 14b- 33w- 41b+ 37w= 32b- 42w+ 26b-   2303 -22  (+3 -5 =3)
41: Arabidze, Meri           2351   4.5 / 11   39w= 46b- 15b- 35w+ 36b- 49w+ 40w- 44b+ 26w- 43w= 37b=   2330  -2  (+3 -5 =3)
42: Charkhalashvili, Inga    2334   4.5 / 11   18w= 39b- 16w= 24b- 50b+ 28w- 44w= 26b- 48w+ 40b- 49w+   2322  -1  (+3 -5 =3)
43: Mikadze, Miranda         2323   4.5 / 11   22w- 23b- 24w- 44b- 48b+ 50w+ 34b= 28w= 46w= 41b= 33w=   2314  -1  (+2 -4 =5)
44: Janjghava, Natia         2306   4.0 / 11   21w- 25b- 34b- 43w+ 33b- 47w+ 42b= 41w- 45b+ 37w= 36b-   2261  -7  (+3 -6 =2)
45: Klinova, Masha           2318   3.5 / 11   13b- 28w+ 11b- 36w= 38b+ 21w- 15b- 32b- 44w- 50w+ 48b-   2246 -10  (+3 -7 =1)
46: Khotenashvili, Bela      2500   3.5 / 11   20b- 41w+ 37b- 50w+ 11b- 36w= 25b= 22w- 43b= 38w- 39b-   2257 -36  (+2 -6 =3)
47: Gurieli, Nino            2329   3.5 / 11   30b- 11w- 33b+ 25b- 26w- 44b- 48w= 49w+ 34b- 36b- 50w+   2217 -17  (+3 -7 =1)
48: Umudova, Nargiz          2231   3.0 / 11   27b- 36b- 28w= 16b- 43w- 35w- 47b= 50w+ 42b- 49b- 45w+   2188  -6  (+2 -7 =2)
49: Bezgodova, Svetlana      2120   2.5 / 11   40w+  5b- 27w=  6b- 16w- 41b- 32w- 47b- 50b- 48w+ 42b-   2179  +7  (+2 -8 =1)
50: Gaprindashvili, Nona     2356   2.0 / 11   12w+ 10w- 30b- 46b- 42w- 43b- 35w- 48b- 49w+ 45b- 47b-   2105 -33  (+2 -9 =0)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
275 games: +127 =71 -77

[Ajedrecista]

Hello Steven:

I'm adding player win/loss/drawn subtotals to Scid vs. PC crosstable
and i'm not quite sure about the common notation.
Is the order

Code: Select all

1.  +won -loss =draw
2.  +won =draw -loss

I think it's the first... but in the player info window, it is already shown the second way.
So if the first is common, perhaps i should change the player info to use the this way also ?

You are doing a great job with Scid vs. PC! Congratulations.

I have the same questions for years. I am Spanish and I am more used to the second option of your code box (I do not know if I am in minority), clearly influenced by football (soccer) classifications, where first come wins, then draws, then loses. Here is a link where this approach is used in chess:

Match statistics.

It is true that I see much more times your first option and I had developped a silly theory: your first option is usual in anglo-saxon countries (U.K. and the U.S., for example) while the second option is often seen in European continental countries (like Spain) and Iberoamerican countries. Well, I sure make you laugh with such a silly theory! More trustable info will be welcome.

You could include both options, freely eligible by the user... although it may be hard to program. Good luck with your choice!

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

[Guenther]

It is true that I see much more times your first option and I had developped a silly theory: your first option is usual in anglo-saxon countries (U.K. and the U.S., for example) while the second option is often seen in European continental countries (like Spain) and Iberoamerican countries. Well, I sure make you laugh with such a silly theory!

...

Ajedrecista.

Jesus, this is no silly theory, you are plain right!
WDL rules :)

Guenther

[ZirconiumX]

<snip>
It is true that I see much more times your first option and I had developped a silly theory: your first option is usual in anglo-saxon countries (U.K. and the U.S., for example)

Hate to bust your theory, but for me the second one makes the most sense (win>draw>loss). For a second opinion we'd better ask Jim Ablett wrt the english side of things.

Also a rather common chess tournament program developed by Ilari P (sorry, I can't pronounce your name let alone spell it) uses the former, and it is definitely european.

Matthew:out

[stevenaaus]

I used to think win-draw-loss was better, but now favour win-loss-draw as i find it more intuitive for some reason. Perhaps it ~is~ a cultural thing ?

[Don]

I used to think win-draw-loss was better, but now favour win-loss-draw as i find it more intuitive for some reason. Perhaps it ~is~ a cultural thing ?

win-draw-loss is more logical because you go in a logical progression, sort of like good, ok, bad. You want the first number to be as high as possible and the last to be as low as possible.

However I think win/loss/draw is more intuitive too. It has the advantage that you can see at a glance who is winning by just looking at the first two numbers. The last number is just draws and the first two represent the decisive games. In a way you can get by without the last number because it doesn't change who has the lead. That's probably why it seems more intuitive to many of us.