Perfect Example Of A "No-Blame Problem"

[geots]

It is a useless waste of time to try and direct blame in any direction. It is what it is, and all you can do is work with what you got. But here is the perfect example of a problem that is being seen more and more often. And the programmers are not going to be aware unless someone points it out.

They have the perfect right to name an engine anything they choose. But to the example- and I am not intentionally picking on Roberto. His latest version of DeepSaros loads named as "DeepSaros version 3.1-Beta." Now he is dangerously close to not being able to load this engine in a Round Robin in a chessbase gui. Add 1 or 2 letters or numbers- and it won't play. Point is, I tried to add just "p64" on the end to show it was popcnt x64. And it was already too long for just those 3 characters. But it would not have been if he had left out the word "version". It's his right to add it, but I think all 500 engines I have loaded are all "versions" of some engine. It doesn't have to be in the name for me to know that. And I had much rather a useless word like that not be there- then I could add something useful I really need- like "pct x64."

If there is a way without a compiler or programmer going into the executable to remove characters from an engine name of a UCI engine to change it- I don't know it. I can add- but not remove.

I suppose in the gui I might be able to make the letter/number font a lot smaller- and in a long name then I might not get the "engine can't be defined" in a RR. Never tried it. But not really the point. The trend now seems to be "the longer the name the better". Look back at Tao 5.6, Matacz 1.4, Delfi 5.4 and about 100 or 200 more, and then compare that to a lot of the names today. You never saw "Delfi version 5.4 (maybe beta-maybe not) Sep12-2012 w32-nosse_ unless 64-bit- then sse4.2 x64"! (A few extra characters for emphasis- but not too many extra ones).

I did not mean to offend anyone- it is just that I am worn out chasing down programmers and getting them to shorten engine names so I can run them in RRs. Strangely, the length of the name does not affect engine-engine matches. If only one programmer who sees this shortens his next version name- that would be a start. (And no, I have no plans to ever switch guis, except for the occasional Shredder 11 gui run- it would actually to me be the best ever if it showed my engine logos.)


gts

[bob]

It is a useless waste of time to try and direct blame in any direction. It is what it is, and all you can do is work with what you got. But here is the perfect example of a problem that is being seen more and more often. And the programmers are not going to be aware unless someone points it out.

They have the perfect right to name an engine anything they choose. But to the example- and I am not intentionally picking on Roberto. His latest version of DeepSaros loads named as "DeepSaros version 3.1-Beta." Now he is dangerously close to not being able to load this engine in a Round Robin in a chessbase gui. Add 1 or 2 letters or numbers- and it won't play. Point is, I tried to add just "p64" on the end to show it was popcnt x64. And it was already too long for just those 3 characters. But it would not have been if he had left out the word "version". It's his right to add it, but I think all 500 engines I have loaded are all "versions" of some engine. It doesn't have to be in the name for me to know that. And I had much rather a useless word like that not be there- then I could add something useful I really need- like "pct x64."

If there is a way without a compiler or programmer going into the executable to remove characters from an engine name of a UCI engine to change it- I don't know it. I can add- but not remove.

I suppose in the gui I might be able to make the letter/number font a lot smaller- and in a long name then I might not get the "engine can't be defined" in a RR. Never tried it. But not really the point. The trend now seems to be "the longer the name the better". Look back at Tao 5.6, Matacz 1.4, Delfi 5.4 and about 100 or 200 more, and then compare that to a lot of the names today. You never saw "Delfi version 5.4 (maybe beta-maybe not) Sep12-2012 w32-nosse_ unless 64-bit- then sse4.2 x64"! (A few extra characters for emphasis- but not too many extra ones).

I did not mean to offend anyone- it is just that I am worn out chasing down programmers and getting them to shorten engine names so I can run them in RRs. Strangely, the length of the name does not affect engine-engine matches. If only one programmer who sees this shortens his next version name- that would be a start. (And no, I have no plans to ever switch guis, except for the occasional Shredder 11 gui run- it would actually to me be the best ever if it showed my engine logos.)


gts

You certainly could use a hex editor to search for that string. You can replace it and terminate it (early) with a binary zero value, which will shorten it. But I agree that some are using names that are too long. I have encountered similar problems. I finally made my cluster referee program accept names up to 256 characters to avoid running into this issue over and over.

[geots]

It is a useless waste of time to try and direct blame in any direction. It is what it is, and all you can do is work with what you got. But here is the perfect example of a problem that is being seen more and more often. And the programmers are not going to be aware unless someone points it out.

They have the perfect right to name an engine anything they choose. But to the example- and I am not intentionally picking on Roberto. His latest version of DeepSaros loads named as "DeepSaros version 3.1-Beta." Now he is dangerously close to not being able to load this engine in a Round Robin in a chessbase gui. Add 1 or 2 letters or numbers- and it won't play. Point is, I tried to add just "p64" on the end to show it was popcnt x64. And it was already too long for just those 3 characters. But it would not have been if he had left out the word "version". It's his right to add it, but I think all 500 engines I have loaded are all "versions" of some engine. It doesn't have to be in the name for me to know that. And I had much rather a useless word like that not be there- then I could add something useful I really need- like "pct x64."

If there is a way without a compiler or programmer going into the executable to remove characters from an engine name of a UCI engine to change it- I don't know it. I can add- but not remove.

I suppose in the gui I might be able to make the letter/number font a lot smaller- and in a long name then I might not get the "engine can't be defined" in a RR. Never tried it. But not really the point. The trend now seems to be "the longer the name the better". Look back at Tao 5.6, Matacz 1.4, Delfi 5.4 and about 100 or 200 more, and then compare that to a lot of the names today. You never saw "Delfi version 5.4 (maybe beta-maybe not) Sep12-2012 w32-nosse_ unless 64-bit- then sse4.2 x64"! (A few extra characters for emphasis- but not too many extra ones).

I did not mean to offend anyone- it is just that I am worn out chasing down programmers and getting them to shorten engine names so I can run them in RRs. Strangely, the length of the name does not affect engine-engine matches. If only one programmer who sees this shortens his next version name- that would be a start. (And no, I have no plans to ever switch guis, except for the occasional Shredder 11 gui run- it would actually to me be the best ever if it showed my engine logos.)


gts

You certainly could use a hex editor to search for that string. You can replace it and terminate it (early) with a binary zero value, which will shorten it. But I agree that some are using names that are too long. I have encountered similar problems. I finally made my cluster referee program accept names up to 256 characters to avoid running into this issue over and over.

Bob, I missed this one. I would probably have to say the trophy goes here:

Carballo Chess Engine v0.5


I am glad "Chess Engine" was not left off. It is a reminder for me of where I am and what I am doing.

gts

[geots]

After a moment's thought, I decided it is probably best to let Alberto know that I am not making fun of him or Carballo. Anyone who can write a chess program and do it well has the right to name it anything he chooses. And I certainly respect him. I was just adding a little humor and at the same time possibly planting a seed of thought about maybe making the name shorter. It really helps because then it also allows for me to add "w32" or "x64", or maybe even "popcnt x64" if the original name is short enough.

Then I thought about these language barriers and thought it best to let anyone reading it know it was just good natured fun and no harm was meant.

george

[jdart]

When you add a UCI engine to Chessbase you can name it anything you want - so you can shorten, not just append to, the name. You could call it "DS 3.1b" if you wanted - that is plenty short enough.

That said, although generally I love Chessbase, their engine management is quite primitive and they haven't changed it in years. For example, once you've created an engine you can't change any of its parameters in the GUI.

--Jon

[Graham Banks]

When you add a UCI engine to Chessbase you can name it anything you want - so you can shorten, not just append to, the name. You could call it "DS 3.1b" if you wanted - that is plenty short enough.

That said, although generally I love Chessbase, their engine management is quite primitive and they haven't changed it in years. For example, once you've created an engine you can't change any of its parameters in the GUI.

--Jon

When you load the engine in the process of starting a match or tournament, you can change the parameters and save those changes.
Then in future, when you load that engine, you also have the option of loading those saved parameters too.

[carldaman]

When you add a UCI engine to Chessbase you can name it anything you want - so you can shorten, not just append to, the name. You could call it "DS 3.1b" if you wanted - that is plenty short enough.

That said, although generally I love Chessbase, their engine management is quite primitive and they haven't changed it in years. For example, once you've created an engine you can't change any of its parameters in the GUI.

--Jon

Actually, with some engines, a certain string containing the engine name and version# cannot be edited; one could add to it, but not shorten it.

CL

[geots]

When you add a UCI engine to Chessbase you can name it anything you want - so you can shorten, not just append to, the name. You could call it "DS 3.1b" if you wanted - that is plenty short enough.

That said, although generally I love Chessbase, their engine management is quite primitive and they haven't changed it in years. For example, once you've created an engine you can't change any of its parameters in the GUI.

--Jon

No, you cannot name it anything you want. You can, if the engine is Winboard Adapted to UCI. Strict UCI- you can add, you can't remove. Even Jim Ablett tells you that has to be done from inside the executable. If there Is a trick that allows it- I would absolutely love to know. As for the shortcomings of chessbase guis- that is not up for discussion with me. Not being ugly- just as honest as I can.

gts

gts

[Carotino]

Uhmmmm....
I must admit that George is right. In the coming days, I will provide to rename and recompile DeepSaros, using a shorter name. Unfortunately, these are the small / big things that you do not think (at least in my case).

[geots]

Uhmmmm....
I must admit that George is right. In the coming days, I will provide to rename and recompile DeepSaros, using a shorter name. Unfortunately, these are the small / big things that you do not think (at least in my case).

If you just remove the words "version" and "Beta", that will allow me to add "pcnt x64", which is much more important to have in the name. If you wanted to, you could even have "3.1b" which actually says it is a beta without having to use the whole word.

george