Ponder miss & transposition tables

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Nordlandia
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Ponder miss & transposition tables

Post by Nordlandia »

michiguel wrote:That assumes that 40% of the time, when the prediction was wrong, the time was wasted. It is possible that it was not completely useless. In other words, searching a wrong move could still fill up the hashtable with useful information. Sometimes the prediction is wrong, but it will lead to a transposition later.
How do ponder miss and transposition tables relate?

Maybe 4 out of 10 times is not entirely wasted after all.

It fill up hash with useful information right?

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... t&start=10
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Nordlandia
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Re: Ponder miss & transposition tables

Post by Nordlandia »

For exampe in this scenario.

Let us say both engines does not consult tablebase assistance.

[d]b3k3/1p6/1P6/Pp5p/1P5P/8/P7/4K3 w - - 0 1

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cdani
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Re: Ponder miss & transposition tables

Post by cdani »

Nordlandia wrote:It fill up hash with useful information right?
Yes, sure some lines are the same for the two moves.
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Nordlandia
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Re: Ponder miss & transposition tables

Post by Nordlandia »

cdani wrote:
Nordlandia wrote:It fill up hash with useful information right?
Yes, sure some lines are the same for the two moves.
Wouldn't that mean that engine should reply somewhat faster in ponder matches, even with ponder miss opposed to running without ponder.

I.e expected move is not the follow up move by opposing engine, still due to transposition it may reply faster, directly provoked/triggered by pondering :idea:
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cdani
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Re: Ponder miss & transposition tables

Post by cdani »

Nordlandia wrote:
cdani wrote:
Nordlandia wrote:It fill up hash with useful information right?
Yes, sure some lines are the same for the two moves.
Wouldn't that mean that engine should reply somewhat faster in ponder matches, even with ponder miss opposed to running without ponder.

I.e expected move is not the follow up move by opposing engine, still due to transposition it may reply faster, directly provoked/triggered by pondering :idea:
Depends on the time management of the engine. It can decide or not to reply faster. For example Andscacs can finish the search faster if the evaluation is more stable, but it evaluates also other thinks that can make it last longer.
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Nordlandia
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Re: Ponder miss & transposition tables

Post by Nordlandia »

This study can also be used for testing pondering reply speed.

Make sure engine never resign game!

[d]kB5K/2P4B/P4rP1/4r3/2N1n3/1RP4N/3b4/6RQ b - - 0 1