960 Chess

[kk]

I have just discovered that the Fritz chess interface can manage 960 castling rules and Fat Fritz also knows about the rules and caters for them in its analysis. It is the first chess program at that level, I have come across, that can manage chess 960.
Well done Chessbase.

[MikeB]

I have just discovered that the Fritz chess interface can manage 960 castling rules and Fat Fritz also knows about the rules and caters for them in its analysis. It is the first chess program at that level, I have come across, that can manage chess 960.
Well done Chessbase.

If you use Fritz long enough , you will discover out their implementation is buggy. To be more specific, you will load a correctly scored 960 game with the correct PGN headers and it will not load the game properly. It might load the first five moves and then report the next move is illegal when it is not. XBoard/Winboard will load the exact same game without issue.

[kk]

Thanks for the comment MikeB.
I tend to ‘paste’ in pgn format 960 files directly from Hiarcs C.E. But haven’t come across a problem yet. I have been using this interface ever since Fritz 17 was released for 960 analysis but only with the last update has the 960 logic appeared. I store all my chess pgn files in a Hiarcs database coz the games are easily accessible from the main gui screen, without having to switch in other database screens, hence my regular cut and paste to the Fritz interface. I’ll keep an eye for any mishaps.

[MikeB]

Thanks for the comment MikeB.
I tend to ‘paste’ in pgn format 960 files directly from Hiarcs C.E. But haven’t come across a problem yet. I have been using this interface ever since Fritz 17 was released for 960 analysis but only with the last update has the 960 logic appeared. I store all my chess pgn films in a Hiarcs database coz the games are easily accessible from the main gui screen, without having to switch in screens, hence my regular cut and paste to the Fritz interface. I’ll keep an eye for any mishaps.

I just figured out what the issue is - XBoard/Winboard allows one to start Chess960 game - say #740 and then paste the moves in without an FEN, Fritz requires you to include the FEN even if you have already have a started a new game at position 740.

[kk]

Every 960 pgn file I paste in always has a FEN. Even if it is just a starting position it still has a fen for obvious reasons. Interestingly when I actuate new game in the Fritz interface following a previous 960 game I get a choice to select between 960, Giveaway chess and standard. I’ve never played giveaway chess but wiki tells me it’s otherwise known as anti chess, giveaway chess, suicide chess, killer chess, take-all chess and capture chess. I have enough trouble with standard and 960.
After selecting 960 from the new game prompt Fritz will ask for a 960 opening number or will select a random Start position from the 960 variations available.
The Shredder chess interface will recognise a new 960 game and setup an opening position, but the analysis doesn’t seem to account for 960 castling rules.
HCE’s current version does not recognise any 960 logic except it will read the FEN in a pgn and setup the correct start position, but cannot generate a 960 start position and does not recognise 960 castling. There are rumours that the next release of HCE will cater for 960 games but a release date for this version has been slipping through our fingers for several years now.

[MikeB]

Every 960 pgn file I paste in always has a FEN. Even if it is just a starting position it still has a fen for obvious reasons. Interestingly when I actuate new game in the Fritz interface following a previous 960 game I get a choice to select between 960, Giveaway chess and standard. I’ve never played giveaway chess but wiki tells me it’s otherwise known as anti chess, giveaway chess, suicide chess, killer chess, take-all chess and capture chess. I have enough trouble with standard and 960.
After selecting 960 from the new game prompt Fritz will ask for a 960 opening number or will select a random Start position from the 960 variations available.
The Shredder chess interface will recognise a new 960 game and setup an opening position, but the analysis doesn’t seem to account for 960 castling rules.
HCE’s current version does not recognise any 960 logic except it will read the FEN in a pgn and setup the correct start position, but cannot generate a 960 start position and does not recognise 960 castling. There are rumours that the next release of HCE will cater for 960 games but a release date for this version has been slipping through our fingers for several years now.

For me , I was just pasting my moves into xboard, after the setting up the right game ID under RFC. Anyway < I assumed it would worked the same as Xboard, when once I initiated the Chess960 starting position, I could just paste the moves in as I could do in xboard without any FEN. OK I used xboard so long - did not ever consider that others apps would be less friendly. Most GUI , AFAIK, do not handle all castling moves correctly, xBoard and Cutechess are two that do handle it correctly.

Just to demonstrate:

Below is an FRC game , start pos #32.
In xboard, I can set the game for initial start pos for #32 and simply copy and paste the moves right in. No pgn, no FEN, just the moves, That is very convenient to say the least.

1. b4 b6 2. c4 c5 3. bxc5 bxc5 4. h4 h5 5. e4 e5 6. Ne3 Ne6 7. Ne2 Ne7 8.
f3 Nd4 9. Nc3 g6 10. Ncd5 f6 11. Rh2 Rh7 12. g3 Rg7 13. Rg2 Kh8 14. f4*

[kk]

I managed to setup position #32 in Fritz and paste in your moves successfully. I was then able to copy the game in Fritz, clear Fritz with a new game and paste the game directly back in from the clipboard. However, Hiarcs won’t accept a copied 960 game from the Fritz interface, yet it will accept a 960 pgn from ICCF. On comparing the pgn of ICCF with that from Fritz I found 4 extra characters in the FEN line which were ‘Hfhf’. Not sure what they are doing there but the ICCF pgn FEN line does not have those characters. By deleting them and replacing with a dash the amended Fritz 960 pgn was read successfully into Hiarcs.

[MikeB]

I managed to setup position #32 in Fritz and paste in your moves successfully. I was then able to copy the game in Fritz, clear Fritz with a new game and paste the game directly back in from the clipboard. However, Hiarcs won’t accept a copied 960 game from the Fritz interface, yet it will accept a 960 pgn from ICCF. On comparing the pgn of ICCF with that from Fritz I found 4 extra characters in the FEN line which were ‘Hfhf’. Not sure what they are doing there but the ICCF pgn FEN line does not have those characters. By deleting them and replacing with a dash the amended Fritz 960 pgn was read successfully into Hiarcs.

HFhf is extended FEN notation for castling rights for Chess960. Without that, how would the GUI know what the castling rights are - that would be a bug. You don't need the extended castling notation if you are making the moves , but if you are using an engine, that will eventually become a problem.