SPCC: Testrun of Ethereal 13 nnue finished

[pohl4711]

AB-testrun of Ethereal 13 nnue avx2 finished.

https://www.sp-cc.de

(Perhaps you have to clear your browsercache or reload the website)

[mehmet123]

Great progress for a chess engine that doesn't use a Stockfish NNUE net.

[AndrewGrant]

Awesome results! #4 if you filter multiple Stockfishes and Komodos, #3 if you discount Fire (Stockfish) with a Stockfish Network.
Excited to see the victory over Komodo 14. Beating the old-guard of Alpha-Beta was the goal for the release. +75

Thanks for taking the time to test things, and for using the AVX2 version.

[kranium]

Awesome results! #4 if you filter multiple Stockfishes and Komodos, #3 if you discount Fire (Stockfish) with a Stockfish Network.

Don't be a douchbag Andrew..
Fire is open source, I invite anyone to examine it and compare to SF here https://github.com/FireFather/fire
Fire uses ideas and techniques from Stockfish (like most/many) and freely and openly admits it

"Fire utilizes many state-of-the-art chess programming ideas and techniques
which have been documented in detail at https://www.chessprogramming.org/
and demonstrated via the very strong open-source chess engine Stockfish...
https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish."


Your Ethereal goes much further, as there are large portions of copy and pasted code

for ex: compare Ethereal's(?) windows.c function "int best_group(size_t idx)"
https://github.com/AndyGrant/Ethereal/b ... /windows.c
to
and Stockfish's misc.c function "int best_group(size_t idx)"
https://github.com/official-stockfish/S ... c/misc.cpp

they are identical, even the comments have been copied word for word from Stockfish.

An examination of the Ethereal github commits also shows many Stockfish patches directly applied to and used in Ethereal
You've admitted this yourself.

There are long threads in Engine Origins detailing just how similar Ethereal and Stockfish are:

"What Ethereal has taken from Stockfish (Code Comparisons Inside)"
http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=75254

Ethereal 12.75 vs Stockfish 12 striking search similarity
http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=76834


and all of that above exists with absolutely no attribution or credit given (or even casually mentioned) by you to Stockfish anywhere

My stuff has absolutely nothing to do with Stockfish.

What a bunch of nonsense. Stop misleading people about Ethereal while pointing the finger at me and others in a vain attempt to promote yourself.

[kranium]

Great progress for a chess engine that doesn't use a Stockfish NNUE net.

Mehmet, have you seen these?
Sorry to disappoint but they're rather pathetic

CCRL Blitz
Ethereal 13.00 64-bit 8CPU 3570
Ethereal 12.75 64-bit 8CPU 3541

CCRL 40/15
Ethereal 13.00 64-bit 4CPU 3410
Ethereal 12.75 64-bit 4CPU 3392

but only $40.00, what a deal
it's easy to understand now why he's so busy 'spinning' things...

"These Networks are the second of their kind, boasting themselves as the only other high level NNUEs not derived from, trained on, nor duplicated from the works of the Stockfish team."

[AndrewGrant]

Awesome results! #4 if you filter multiple Stockfishes and Komodos, #3 if you discount Fire (Stockfish) with a Stockfish Network.

Don't be a douchbag Andrew..
Fire is open source, I invite anyone to examine it and compare to SF here https://github.com/FireFather/fire
Fire uses ideas and techniques from Stockfish (like most/many) and freely and openly admits it

"Fire utilizes many state-of-the-art chess programming ideas and techniques
which have been documented in detail at https://www.chessprogramming.org/
and demonstrated via the very strong open-source chess engine Stockfish...
https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish."


Your Ethereal goes much further, as there are large portions of copy and pasted code

for ex: compare Ethereal's(?) windows.c function "int best_group(size_t idx)"
https://github.com/AndyGrant/Ethereal/b ... /windows.c
to
and Stockfish's misc.c function "int best_group(size_t idx)"
https://github.com/official-stockfish/S ... c/misc.cpp

they are identical, even the comments have been copied word for word from Stockfish.

An examination of the Ethereal github commits also shows many Stockfish patches directly applied to and used in Ethereal
You've admitted this yourself.

There are long threads in Engine Origins detailing just how similar Ethereal and Stockfish are:

"What Ethereal has taken from Stockfish (Code Comparisons Inside)"
http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=75254

Ethereal 12.75 vs Stockfish 12 striking search similarity
http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=76834


and all of that above exists with absolutely no attribution or credit given (or even casually mentioned) by you to Stockfish anywhere

My stuff has absolutely nothing to do with Stockfish.

What a bunch of nonsense. Stop misleading people about Ethereal while pointing the finger at me and others in a vain attempt to promote yourself.

Seems I struck a nerve. Perhaps because your one commercial attempt resulted in you issuing refunds to all and issuing an apology, after you were accused, lied about, and then ultimately conceded that you cloned an open source project and violated it's license.

Also seems your memory is not what it used to be, as you've already been told that the Windows NUMA code originates from Texel, ported to BrainFish and cleaned up, and then the cleanup moved to Stockfish, and is used by quite a large number of engines. Your go-to example of Stockfish code is ... not quite Stockfish.

But I'm not going to argue with you any longer, as I don't think anyone is unconvinced of who you are, and what Fire is. Enjoy retirement Norman. Chess is a terrible hobby, and even GMs would not wish a life of chess on the average man. Enjoy the scenario and life.

[kranium]

Also seems your memory is not what it used to be, as you've already been told that the Windows NUMA code originates from Texel, not Stockfish, and is used by quite a large number of engines. Your go-to example of Stockfish code is ... not Stockfish.

from Ethereral windows.c line 36

"Current code from Stockfish authors."

[AndrewGrant]

Also seems your memory is not what it used to be, as you've already been told that the Windows NUMA code originates from Texel, not Stockfish, and is used by quite a large number of engines. Your go-to example of Stockfish code is ... not Stockfish.

from Ethereral windows.c line 36
"Current code from Stockfish authors."

"and all of that above exists with absolutely no attribution or credit given (or even casually mentioned) by you to Stockfish anywhere"

Seems like you can handle refuting yourself for me. Take care Norman. I wish you the best. Finally to the ignore list, with only a small number of others.

[kranium]

Andrew, there's nothing in the readme, nothing mentioned on your github page, or anywhere else...
but there's a ton of stuff like this:

My stuff has absolutely nothing to do with Stockfish.

But my bad! you're right...
you actually did include one line as a comment buried in between lines of source code a couple years ago

[Modern Times]

CCRL 40/15
Ethereal 13.00 64-bit 4CPU 3410
Ethereal 12.75 64-bit 4CPU 3392

The Statistical error margins are quite high; they will reduce over time as more games are added after the initial batch. But yes it did not do as well on 4CPU as I expected. Also, these are bayesElo Elo, not Ordo Elo, and Ordo always shows higher gains, sometimes as much as +10 higher.

Where Ethereal 13 seems to show the best improvements are on a single thread at blitz time controls as with Stefan's results. Our blitz list shows +55 Elo at the moment on 1CPU, which in Ordo terms is probably +65 Elo, which is close to Stefan's +75. But again more games will reduce the error margins on our side. I'm keen to see results from other testing groups on multiple threads. CEGT, FastGM etc