Dragon 2.5 too strong for a 2000 at Rook Odds

[Chessqueen]

Before with Dragon 2, I used to beat it at Rook Odds, but after playing 5 games at TC 15'+10" this whas my best game, which I would probably have lost anyway, but trying hard to keep it even I lost on time anyway. I truly believe that this new Dragon 2.5 at Rook Odds could be a match for any human rated between 2000 to 2100 AT 15'+10" . I do NOT feel proud of my other 4 games, since Dragon 2.5 totally humiliated me.

[pgn][Event "Rook Odds"]
[Date "2021.09.25"]
[Round "1-0"]
[White "Dragon-2.5-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1975"]
[Time "15:26:08"]
[WhiteElo "3600"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "time forfeit"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "Human"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nd2 Nc6 3. Ngf3 Bf5 4. a3 e6 5. e3 Bd6 6. c4 Be7 7. c5 Bf6 8.
Be2 Nge7 9. h3 h6 10. Qa4 O-O 11. g4 Bh7 12. h4 Ng6 13. g5 hxg5 14. hxg5
Bxg5 15. b4 Bf6 16. b5 Nce7 17. Bd3 b6 18. c6 Qd6 19. Bb2 a6 20. bxa6 Nxc6
21. Bb5 Na7 22. Bd3 b5 23. Qd1 Qe7 24. Qe2 Rab8 25. Rh2 Rb6 26. Qf1 Nh4 27.
Bxh7+ Kxh7 28. Nxh4 Bxh4 29. Qh1 g5 30. Nf3 Kg7 31. Nxh4 Qf6 32. Kd2 gxh4
33. Qg1+ Kh6 34. Qg4 Qg5 35. Rxh4+ Kg6 36. Qh3 f5 37. f4 Qxh4 38. Qxh4 Rxa6
39. Qe7 Rh8 40. Bc3 Nc8 41. Qd7 Rd6 42. Qxc7 Nb6 43. Bb4 Nc4+ 44. Kd3 Rb6
45. Qe7 ... {Black forfeits on time} *[/pgn]

[lkaufman]

Before with Dragon 2, I used to beat it at Rook Odds, but after playing 5 games at TC 15'+10" this whas my best game, which I would probably have lost anyway, but trying hard to keep it even I lost on time anyway. I truly believe that this new Dragon 2.5 at Rook Odds could be a match for any human rated between 2000 to 2100 AT 15'+10" . I do NOT feel proud of my other 4 games, since Dragon 2.5 totally humiliated me.

[pgn][Event "Rook Odds"]
[Date "2021.09.25"]
[Round "1-0"]
[White "Dragon-2.5-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1975"]
[Time "15:26:08"]
[WhiteElo "3600"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "time forfeit"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "Human"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nd2 Nc6 3. Ngf3 Bf5 4. a3 e6 5. e3 Bd6 6. c4 Be7 7. c5 Bf6 8.
Be2 Nge7 9. h3 h6 10. Qa4 O-O 11. g4 Bh7 12. h4 Ng6 13. g5 hxg5 14. hxg5
Bxg5 15. b4 Bf6 16. b5 Nce7 17. Bd3 b6 18. c6 Qd6 19. Bb2 a6 20. bxa6 Nxc6
21. Bb5 Na7 22. Bd3 b5 23. Qd1 Qe7 24. Qe2 Rab8 25. Rh2 Rb6 26. Qf1 Nh4 27.
Bxh7+ Kxh7 28. Nxh4 Bxh4 29. Qh1 g5 30. Nf3 Kg7 31. Nxh4 Qf6 32. Kd2 gxh4
33. Qg1+ Kh6 34. Qg4 Qg5 35. Rxh4+ Kg6 36. Qh3 f5 37. f4 Qxh4 38. Qxh4 Rxa6
39. Qe7 Rh8 40. Bc3 Nc8 41. Qd7 Rd6 42. Qxc7 Nb6 43. Bb4 Nc4+ 44. Kd3 Rb6
45. Qe7 ... {Black forfeits on time} *[/pgn]

Your posts motivated me to try rook odds with Dragon 2.5 myself in fast games. At 4' + 2" I lost, but at 5' + 5" I was able to win. I'll have to play more games to be precise, but somewhere in the ballpark of 5' + 5" or maybe 5' + 3" is probably fair for me. At 15' + 10" I'm a clear underdog at knight odds, but I do score some draws and an occasional win. Rook odds would be too easy at that time control. I noticed that USCF has a conversion formula from FIDE ratings, so if I use that formula to estimate my FIDE rating (since my USCF rating is far more accurate than my FIDE rating as many more of my games are rated USCF, against a more normal field) then my estimated FIDE rating is 2244 now, which is probably about right I think. So based on your games and mine at rook odds, I would estimate that 2100 FIDE would be a fair opponent for Dragon at rook odds in 15' + 10" Rapid.

[AdminX]

I just wanted to test the theory with the old classic.



[pgn]
[Event "Banksia game"]
[Date "2021.09.27"]
[White "Dragon 2.5 by Komodo Chess"]
[Black "Tasc ChessSystem R40 (King 2.50) "]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "40/7200+1"]
[Time "16:50:21"]
[Termination "mate"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. d4 {-4.23/31 179887 128154803} Nf6 2. c3 {-4.29/33 356621 226683078} d6
3. Nf3 {-4.22/29 171964 107360760} c5 4. e3 {-4.28/33 686264 468157225} Nc6
5. Be2 {-4.23/29 100959 65564371} Bf5 6. d5 {-4.14/30 121006 75515365} Ne5
7. e4 {-4.12/32 24178 63325371} Bd7 8. Nd2 {-4.19/34 10 102191918} e6
9. dxe6 {-4.21/31 87158 169564051} fxe6 10. O-O {-4.29/31 294858 281070702} Be7
11. f4 {-4.23/28 131128 84425852} Ng6 12. g3 {-4.12/29 144074 92457181} O-O
13. Bf3 {-4.25/29 133033 86198649} Qb6 14. c4 {-4.03/32 146656 96211848} Rfc8
15. a4 {-3.82/30 244954 162106165} Bd8 16. h4 {-3.09/29 135829 92201622} Bc7
17. b3 {-3.04/29 198696 136541719} Qb4 18. Bb2 {-3.08/29 148433 101364567} e5
19. f5 {-2.38/33 245177 172710079} Ne7 20. g4 {-2.27/32 158412 114747805} Be8
21. g5 {+0.00/33 135866 91953148} Nd7 22. Bg4 {+1.34/33 351864 227612713} h5
23. Bxh5 {+2.83/34 149796 104785198} Bxh5 24. Qxh5 {+3.44/35 64466 133462938} Qxd2
25. f6 {+3.79/40 10 297172101} Qe3+ 26. Kh2 {+3.85/37 180609 155789260} Nxf6
27. gxf6 {+4.14/39 197390 147172511} g6 28. Qg4 {+9.95/28 160856 116698825} Qxb3
29. fxe7 {M+9/23 25421 27435904} Qxb2+ 30. Kh1 {M+7/35 25525 35082522} Kh8
31. Qxg6 {M+6/99 10 214144253} Qg2+ 32. Qxg2 {M+5/99 10 128813} Rg8
33. Rf8 {M+4/99 10 207808} Rgxf8 34. exf8=Q+ {M+3/99 10 12984} Rxf8
35. Rg1 {M+2/99 10 5530} a6 36. Qg7# {M+1/99 20 2475} 1-0
[/pgn]

[pgn]
[Event "Banksia game"]
[Date "2021.09.27"]
[White "Dragon 2.5 by Komodo Chess"]
[Black "Tasc ChessSystem R40 (King 2.50) "]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "40/7200+1"]
[Time "22:43:36"]
[Termination "mate"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. c4 {-5.37/30 314685 230299915} Nf6 2. d4 {-5.34/32 232316 155582701} e6
3. a3 {-5.29/33 471709 310849573} d5 4. e3 {-5.48/31 10 102565118} c5
5. Nf3 {-5.48/33 10 124296752} Nc6 6. Nc3 {-5.58/33 820240 537280259} Ne4
7. Bd3 {-5.54/33 418135 277199881} Nxc3 8. bxc3 {-5.38/28 85481 57479058} Be7
9. O-O {-5.27/27 88590 57498660} O-O 10. Qc2 {-5.51/29 347534 243443282} f5
11. Qe2 {-5.35/31 432743 298195780} Qb6 12. cxd5 {-5.40/31 532986 369362610} exd5
13. dxc5 {-5.50/29 115094 190816477} Bxc5 14. Bb2 {-5.48/26 103150 68363825} Bd7
15. Qd2 {-5.67/29 688838 466320564} Na5 16. Rb1 {-6.07/29 318180 219127357} Rae8
17. Bc1 {-6.34/30 287900 193121736} Nc4 18. Qd1 {-6.21/27 57523 38177231} Qc7
19. h3 {-5.97/29 208476 136922272} Nxa3 20. Bxa3 {-6.10/26 62471 43159560} Bxa3
21. Qb3 {-6.40/28 79444 132465615} Bc5 22. c4 {-6.84/28 203374 135888541} dxc4
23. Bxc4+ {-6.91/26 134616 92639702} Kh8 24. Qxb7 {-7.83/32 254113 184939980} Qxb7
25. Rxb7 {-8.33/34 10 168564133} Bc6 26. Rb2 {-8.60/34 10 154964433} f4
27. exf4 {-8.76/32 10 100774844} Rxf4 28. Be2 {-9.03/32 10 141678989} Bxf3
29. gxf3 {-8.52/29 48971 37761108} a5 30. Rc2 {-9.12/34 10 85800627} Re5
31. Kg2 {-9.84/31 107311 100688661} Rg5+ 32. Kf1 {-10.60/30 100078 99595161} Rh4
33. Rb2 {-9.51/30 231235 200457699} g6 34. Bd3 {-11.17/31 10 187746703} Rxh3
35. Be4 {-11.91/28 47527 44245699} Rh1+ 36. Ke2 {-13.37/34 10 310753474} Rg2
37. Kd3 {-13.88/34 10 234949056} Rxf2 38. Rb8+ {-15.04/31 10 357360247} Kg7
39. Ra8 {-15.34/31 10 285525575} Rd1+ 40. Kc4 {-15.34/28 113677 139013857} Rc1+
41. Kd5 {-250.00/39 10 371642177} Rd2+ 42. Ke6 {-14.50/32 264663 274943707} Bb6
43. Re8 {-20.46/31 286974 378275776} Bd8 44. Bd5 {-250.00/33 96894 103892534} Re1+
45. Be4 {-250.00/37 10 80736782} a4 46. Ke5 {M-8/27 32767 35338918} a3
47. Rxd8 {M-7/76 10 553710665} Rxd8 48. Kf4 {M-6/99 10 164029729} a2
49. Kg3 {M-5/99 10 2339278} Rg1+ 50. Kh2 {M-4/99 372 708116} a1=Q
51. Bb1 {M-3/99 10 26014} Qb2+ 52. Bc2 {M-3/99 77 211732} Qxc2+
53. Kh3 {M-2/99 10 6376} Qg2+ 54. Kh4 {M-1/5 10 14} Rh1#
0-1
[/pgn]

[lkaufman]

I just wanted to test the theory with the old classic.



[pgn]
[Event "Banksia game"]
[Date "2021.09.27"]
[White "Dragon 2.5 by Komodo Chess"]
[Black "Tasc ChessSystem R40 (King 2.50) "]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "40/7200+1"]
[Time "16:50:21"]
[Termination "mate"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. d4 {-4.23/31 179887 128154803} Nf6 2. c3 {-4.29/33 356621 226683078} d6
3. Nf3 {-4.22/29 171964 107360760} c5 4. e3 {-4.28/33 686264 468157225} Nc6
5. Be2 {-4.23/29 100959 65564371} Bf5 6. d5 {-4.14/30 121006 75515365} Ne5
7. e4 {-4.12/32 24178 63325371} Bd7 8. Nd2 {-4.19/34 10 102191918} e6
9. dxe6 {-4.21/31 87158 169564051} fxe6 10. O-O {-4.29/31 294858 281070702} Be7
11. f4 {-4.23/28 131128 84425852} Ng6 12. g3 {-4.12/29 144074 92457181} O-O
13. Bf3 {-4.25/29 133033 86198649} Qb6 14. c4 {-4.03/32 146656 96211848} Rfc8
15. a4 {-3.82/30 244954 162106165} Bd8 16. h4 {-3.09/29 135829 92201622} Bc7
17. b3 {-3.04/29 198696 136541719} Qb4 18. Bb2 {-3.08/29 148433 101364567} e5
19. f5 {-2.38/33 245177 172710079} Ne7 20. g4 {-2.27/32 158412 114747805} Be8
21. g5 {+0.00/33 135866 91953148} Nd7 22. Bg4 {+1.34/33 351864 227612713} h5
23. Bxh5 {+2.83/34 149796 104785198} Bxh5 24. Qxh5 {+3.44/35 64466 133462938} Qxd2
25. f6 {+3.79/40 10 297172101} Qe3+ 26. Kh2 {+3.85/37 180609 155789260} Nxf6
27. gxf6 {+4.14/39 197390 147172511} g6 28. Qg4 {+9.95/28 160856 116698825} Qxb3
29. fxe7 {M+9/23 25421 27435904} Qxb2+ 30. Kh1 {M+7/35 25525 35082522} Kh8
31. Qxg6 {M+6/99 10 214144253} Qg2+ 32. Qxg2 {M+5/99 10 128813} Rg8
33. Rf8 {M+4/99 10 207808} Rgxf8 34. exf8=Q+ {M+3/99 10 12984} Rxf8
35. Rg1 {M+2/99 10 5530} a6 36. Qg7# {M+1/99 20 2475} 1-0
[/pgn]

[pgn]
[Event "Banksia game"]
[Date "2021.09.27"]
[White "Dragon 2.5 by Komodo Chess"]
[Black "Tasc ChessSystem R40 (King 2.50) "]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "40/7200+1"]
[Time "22:43:36"]
[Termination "mate"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/1NBQKBNR w Kkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. c4 {-5.37/30 314685 230299915} Nf6 2. d4 {-5.34/32 232316 155582701} e6
3. a3 {-5.29/33 471709 310849573} d5 4. e3 {-5.48/31 10 102565118} c5
5. Nf3 {-5.48/33 10 124296752} Nc6 6. Nc3 {-5.58/33 820240 537280259} Ne4
7. Bd3 {-5.54/33 418135 277199881} Nxc3 8. bxc3 {-5.38/28 85481 57479058} Be7
9. O-O {-5.27/27 88590 57498660} O-O 10. Qc2 {-5.51/29 347534 243443282} f5
11. Qe2 {-5.35/31 432743 298195780} Qb6 12. cxd5 {-5.40/31 532986 369362610} exd5
13. dxc5 {-5.50/29 115094 190816477} Bxc5 14. Bb2 {-5.48/26 103150 68363825} Bd7
15. Qd2 {-5.67/29 688838 466320564} Na5 16. Rb1 {-6.07/29 318180 219127357} Rae8
17. Bc1 {-6.34/30 287900 193121736} Nc4 18. Qd1 {-6.21/27 57523 38177231} Qc7
19. h3 {-5.97/29 208476 136922272} Nxa3 20. Bxa3 {-6.10/26 62471 43159560} Bxa3
21. Qb3 {-6.40/28 79444 132465615} Bc5 22. c4 {-6.84/28 203374 135888541} dxc4
23. Bxc4+ {-6.91/26 134616 92639702} Kh8 24. Qxb7 {-7.83/32 254113 184939980} Qxb7
25. Rxb7 {-8.33/34 10 168564133} Bc6 26. Rb2 {-8.60/34 10 154964433} f4
27. exf4 {-8.76/32 10 100774844} Rxf4 28. Be2 {-9.03/32 10 141678989} Bxf3
29. gxf3 {-8.52/29 48971 37761108} a5 30. Rc2 {-9.12/34 10 85800627} Re5
31. Kg2 {-9.84/31 107311 100688661} Rg5+ 32. Kf1 {-10.60/30 100078 99595161} Rh4
33. Rb2 {-9.51/30 231235 200457699} g6 34. Bd3 {-11.17/31 10 187746703} Rxh3
35. Be4 {-11.91/28 47527 44245699} Rh1+ 36. Ke2 b{-13.37/34 10 310753474} Rg2
37. Kd3 {-13.88/34 10 234949056} Rxf2 38. Rb8+ {-15.04/31 10 357360247} Kg7
39. Ra8 {-15.34/31 10 285525575} Rd1+ 40. Kc4 {-15.34/28 113677 139013857} Rc1+
41. Kd5 {-250.00/39 10 371642177} Rd2+ 42. Ke6 {-14.50/32 264663 274943707} Bb6
43. Re8 {-20.46/31 286974 378275776} Bd8 44. Bd5 {-250.00/33 96894 103892534} Re1+
45. Be4 {-250.00/37 10 80736782} a4 46. Ke5 {M-8/27 32767 35338918} a3
47. Rxd8 {M-7/76 10 553710665} Rxd8 48. Kf4 {M-6/99 10 164029729} a2
49. Kg3 {M-5/99 10 2339278} Rg1+ 50. Kh2 {M-4/99 372 708116} a1=Q
51. Bb1 {M-3/99 10 26014} Qb2+ 52. Bc2 {M-3/99 77 211732} Qxc2+
53. Kh3 {M-2/99 10 6376} Qg2+ 54. Kh4 {M-1/5 10 14} Rh1#
0-1
[/pgn]

Whose estimates are those for the elo values? They look about right, although the value depends on the level of the players and the time limit. For 3500 level odds-giver at Rapid, maybe reasonable. But if both players are human level, these values are too high. If I'm about 2300, a 1200 would have no chance against me at knight odds for example.

[AdminX]

I just wanted to test the theory with the old classic.

Whose estimates are those for the elo values? They look about right, although the value depends on the level of the players and the time limit. For 3500 level odds-giver at Rapid, maybe reasonable. But if both players are human level, these values are too high. If I'm about 2300, a 1200 would have no chance against me at knight odds for example.

I found these values here: https://en.chessbase.com/post/komodo-9- ... gainst-gms

Note also the Time Control was 40 Moves in 2 Hours for those games.


From: https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/i ... -Elo-Liste

[lkaufman]

I just wanted to test the theory with the old classic.

Whose estimates are those for the elo values? They look about right, although the value depends on the level of the players and the time limit. For 3500 level odds-giver at Rapid, maybe reasonable. But if both players are human level, these values are too high. If I'm about 2300, a 1200 would have no chance against me at knight odds for example.

I found these values here: https://en.chessbase.com/post/komodo-9- ... gainst-gms

Note also the Time Control was 40 Moves in 2 Hours for those games.


From: https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/i ... -Elo-Liste

No wonder the table looks about right (if odds giver is 3500); it probably came from me! The time control in the match in that post was 45' + 15", not 40 moves in 2 hours.

[AdminX]

I just wanted to test the theory with the old classic.

Whose estimates are those for the elo values? They look about right, although the value depends on the level of the players and the time limit. For 3500 level odds-giver at Rapid, maybe reasonable. But if both players are human level, these values are too high. If I'm about 2300, a 1200 would have no chance against me at knight odds for example.

I found these values here: https://en.chessbase.com/post/komodo-9- ... gainst-gms

Note also the Time Control was 40 Moves in 2 Hours for those games.


From: https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/i ... -Elo-Liste

No wonder the table looks about right (if odds giver is 3500); it probably came from me! The time control in the match in that post was 45' + 15", not 40 moves in 2 hours.

I know, did not want to figure out matching the GUI and the Emulated System, so I went the easy route. Besides I wanted to give the classic a chance.

[Chessqueen]

I just wanted to test the theory with the old classic.

Whose estimates are those for the elo values? They look about right, although the value depends on the level of the players and the time limit. For 3500 level odds-giver at Rapid, maybe reasonable. But if both players are human level, these values are too high. If I'm about 2300, a 1200 would have no chance against me at knight odds for example.

I found these values here: https://en.chessbase.com/post/komodo-9- ... gainst-gms

Note also the Time Control was 40 Moves in 2 Hours for those games.


From: https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/i ... -Elo-Liste

No wonder the table looks about right (if odds giver is 3500); it probably came from me! The time control in the match in that post was 45' + 15", not 40 moves in 2 hours.

I know, did not want to figure out matching the GUI and the Emulated System, so I went the easy route. Besides I wanted to give the classic a chance.

Where did you find that TASC R40 Uci engine version 2.5 ARM6 40 MHz ?

[AdminX]

I just wanted to test the theory with the old classic.

Whose estimates are those for the elo values? They look about right, although the value depends on the level of the players and the time limit. For 3500 level odds-giver at Rapid, maybe reasonable. But if both players are human level, these values are too high. If I'm about 2300, a 1200 would have no chance against me at knight odds for example.

I found these values here: https://en.chessbase.com/post/komodo-9- ... gainst-gms

Note also the Time Control was 40 Moves in 2 Hours for those games.


From: https://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/i ... -Elo-Liste

No wonder the table looks about right (if odds giver is 3500); it probably came from me! The time control in the match in that post was 45' + 15", not 40 moves in 2 hours.

I know, did not want to figure out matching the GUI and the Emulated System, so I went the easy route. Besides I wanted to give the classic a chance.

Where did you find that TASC R40 Uci engine version 2.5 ARM6 40 MHz ?

You can find it in the package CB-EMU Pro located here: https://fhub.jimdofree.com

Once downloaded, look it the Messchess sub-folder, there you will find a Hiarcs, Arena, and Shredder sub-directory where you can run the bat file which will create the installs for your GUI.

You can download the manuals for the system of your choice here: http://www.zanchetta.net