Has anybody done a Non Castling matches between top Engines ?

[Chessqueen]

I would like to start a non castling match between Dragon 2.5 vs Stockfish 14, what GUI support Non Castling Chess at the moment ?

[Guenther]

I would like to start a non castling match between Dragon 2.5 vs Stockfish 14, what GUI support Non Castling Chess at the moment ?

Lol you need a new memory implant...
https://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic. ... ng#p902978

[Chessqueen]

I would like to start a non castling match between Dragon 2.5 vs Stockfish 14, what GUI support Non Castling Chess at the moment ?

Lol you need a new memory implant...
https://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic. ... ng#p902978

So tell me who has run a Non Castling chess tournament with top engines, since my memory is not so good of remembering, did you you a non castling tournament, and I was pretty much asking if GUI is already configured to run Non castling without having to paste the Fen or to set up a position with a FEN.

[Chessqueen]

I would like to start a non castling match between Dragon 2.5 vs Stockfish 14, what GUI support Non Castling Chess at the moment ?

Lol you need a new memory implant...
https://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic. ... ng#p902978

So tell me who has run a Non Castling chess tournament with top engines, since my memory is not so good of remembering, did you run a non castling tournament, and I was pretty much asking if GUI is already configured to run Non castling without having to paste the Fen or to set up a position with a FEN.

Anyway here is a short tournament of Non Castling chess, I guess that when there are no Opening Book the engine have to be very creative from the first move


Rank Engine Score Dr St S-B
1 Dragon-2.5-64bit-avx2 5.0/10 · ·· ·· ·· ·· ========== 25.00
1 Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2 5.0/10 ========== · ·· ·· ·· ·· 25.00


10 games played / Tournament is finished

Tournament start: 2021.09.28, 06:45:25
Latest update: 2021.09.28, 12:02:03
Site/ Country: MININT-UB2PIMJ, United States
Level: 30 Half moves
Hardware: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz with 15.9 GB Memory
Operating system: Windows 10 Enterprise Professional (Build 9200) 64 bit
PGN-File: IGel.pgn
Table created with: Arena 3.5.1

[pgn][Event "Non Castling"]
[Date "2021.09.28"]
[Round "10"]
[White "Dragon-2.5-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3640"]
[ECO "A34"]
[Opening "English"]
[Time "09:00:28"]
[Variation "Symmetrical, 3 Knight's, Exchange"]
[WhiteElo "3600"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "71"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e3 Nc6 6. Bb5 e6 7. h4 a6 8.
Bxc6+ bxc6 9. Na4 a5 10. Kf1 f6 11. h5 Be7 12. b3 Nb4 13. Kg1 e5 14. Bb2
Kf7 15. Rh4 g5 16. Rc4 Be6 17. Rc3 g4 18. Ne1 Rg8 19. Nxc5 Bxc5 20. Rxc5 g3
21. f4 e4 22. a3 Nd5 23. Rxc6 f5 24. Qc2 Qh4 25. Rxe6 Qh2+ 26. Kf1 Qh1+ 27.
Ke2 Qxh5+ 28. Kf1 Qh1+ 29. Ke2 Qh5+ 30. Kf1 Rac8 31. Rc6 Rxc6 32. Qxc6 Qh1+
33. Ke2 Qh5+ 34. Kf1 Qh1+ 35. Ke2 Qh5+ 36. Kf1 {3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[Chessqueen]

I really believe that Non castling chess are more even from move 1 since in standard chess most opening favor White, but in Non Castling where there is not too much theory in the opening both engines have to use their Knowledge from the very beginning, such as Chess Opening principles, anyway, I will not fill this Forum with too many Non Castling Chess games, but here is the 7th games that too me was very instructive of how these two engines manage to use their chess opening principles with any opening book to guide them, and the endgame was a classic as well, and one of the longest chess game.

[pgn][Event "Non Castling"]
[Site "MININT-UB2PIMJ"]
[Date "2021.09.28"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "Dragon-2.5-64bit-avx2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3600"]
[ECO "A32"]
[Opening "English"]
[Time "11:41:42"]
[Variation "Symmetrical, Two Knights, 4...e6"]
[WhiteElo "3640"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "370"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. a3 a6 6. Nc3 d5 7. cxd5 Nxd5
8. Bd2 e5 9. Nxd5 Qxd5 10. Rc1 Nd7 11. Nc2 Qb3 12. Bc3 f6 13. g3 Nc5 14.
Bg2 Be6 15. Ne3 Rc8 16. Qxb3 Nxb3 17. Rd1 b5 18. Bb7 Rb8 19. Bc6+ Kf7 20.
f4 exf4 21. gxf4 g6 22. f5 gxf5 23. Bf3 Bc5 24. Nd5 Rhd8 25. Rf1 Rbc8 26.
Bh5+ Kf8 27. e4 Bxd5 28. exd5 Re8+ 29. Be2 Re4 30. Rxf5 Nd4 31. Rxf6+ Ke7
32. Bxd4 Bxd4 33. Rxa6 Rc2 34. Re6+ Rxe6 35. dxe6 Bxb2 36. Rd7+ Kxe6 37.
Rxh7 Bxa3 38. Bxb5 Bc5 39. Be2 Rc3 40. h4 Ke5 41. Bd1 Ke4 42. Kd2 Rg3 43.
Bc2+ Kd4 44. Rd7+ Ke5 45. Bd1 Rh3 46. Rh7 Ke4 47. Bg4 Bb4+ 48. Kc2 Rc3+ 49.
Kb2 Rg3 50. Bd1 Kf4 51. Rf7+ Ke5 52. h5 Rh3 53. Rf2 Bc5 54. Re2+ Kf4 55.
Rd2 Ba7 56. Rd8 Bf2 57. Rf8+ Ke3 58. Rf5 Bg3 59. Kb3 Bf4 60. Kc4 Rh4 61.
Kc5 Rh2 62. Kc6 Ke4 63. Rb5 Be5 64. Rb4+ Kf5 65. Bf3 Kg5 66. Rg4+ Kf6 67.
Rg8 Ba1 68. Kd5 Kf5 69. Be4+ Kf4 70. Bg6 Rd2+ 71. Ke6 Kg5 72. Be8+ Kh6 73.
Rg6+ Kh7 74. Bc6 Re2+ 75. Kf5 Re5+ 76. Kg4 Bc3 77. Bf3 Bd2 78. Rc6 Re1 79.
Kf5 Rf1 80. Ke4 Rf2 81. Rg6 Bc1 82. Bg4 Kh8 83. Bf3 Rf1 84. Be2 Rf2 85. Bd3
Bd2 86. Ke5 Bc3+ 87. Ke6 Rf4 88. h6 Rf8 89. Rg3 Rf6+ 90. Ke7 Rb6 91. h7 Bg7
92. Rg2 Rb7+ 93. Kd6 Rb3 94. Bf5 Rb8 95. Ra2 Rd8+ 96. Ke7 Rf8 97. Ra5 Bh6
98. Bc2 Rc8 99. Be4 Rf8 100. Bb1 Rb8 101. Bf5 Rf8 102. Be4 Bg7 103. Bg6 Bc3
104. Ra2 Bg7 105. Ra7 Rf2 106. Ra8+ Rf8 107. Ra7 Rf2 108. Bb1 Rf4 109. Ra5
Rf8 110. Rb5 Bh6 111. Ra5 Bg7 112. Bd3 Bh6 113. Ke6 Bg7 114. Ra2 Bf6 115.
Ra5 Bg7 116. Ke7 Bh6 117. Ra4 Bg7 118. Bg6 Rf3 119. Ra8+ Bf8+ 120. Kd7 Rf6
121. Bb1 Rd6+ 122. Kc7 Rf6 123. Kd7 Kg7 124. Ra4 Kh8 125. Ra2 Bg7 126. Be4
Rf8 127. Kd6 Bc3 128. Ra4 Bg7 129. Ke6 Bb2 130. Kd7 Bg7 131. Bg6 Bf6 132.
Ke6 Kg7 133. Be4 Bb2 134. Rc4 Kh8 135. Bb1 Ba1 136. Kd7 Rb8 137. Be4 Be5
138. Rc8+ Rxc8 139. Kxc8 Bf4 140. Kb7 Be3 141. Kc7 Bg5 142. Bb1 Be7 143.
Bf5 Bf8 144. Be4 Be7 145. Kc6 Bf8 146. Bb1 Be7 147. Be4 Bf8 148. Bf5 Be7
149. Bb1 Bg5 150. Be4 Be3 151. Kd7 Bg5 152. Kc6 Be3 153. Bb1 Kg7 154. Kd5
Bc1 155. Kd6 Bh6 156. Ke6 Kh8 157. Bf5 Bf8 158. Kf7 Ba3 159. Bb1 Bc1 160.
Be4 Be3 161. Bg6 Bg5 162. Be4 Bh6 163. Bd3 Bc1 164. Be4 Bg5 165. Ke6 Kg7
166. Ke5 Bf6+ 167. Ke6 Bb2 168. Bc2 Kh6 169. Kf7 Kg5 170. Bd3 Be5 171. Be4
Kf4 172. Bc2 Kg5 173. Bd3 Bf6 174. Bg6 Ba1 175. Bc2 Bc3 176. Ke6 Ba1 177.
Bf5 Bg7 178. Kf7 Bc3 179. Be4 Kh6 180. Kg8 Bg7 181. Bf5 Bc3 182. Bb1 Bg7
183. Be4 Bf6 184. Bd3 Bc3 185. h8=Q+ Bxh8 {Insufficient material} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[pohl4711]

I would like to start a non castling match between Dragon 2.5 vs Stockfish 14, what GUI support Non Castling Chess at the moment ?

I created 2 openings sets with No Castling Chess openings for engine-testing:

Classical human openings, balanced endpositions. Queens still on the board.
All lines filtered out of MegaBase 2020. No double endpositions.
KomodoDragon 1.0 analyzed each endposition on a QuadcorePC with 15 seconds thinking-time.
Allowed Eval [-0.39;+0.59]
Files are sorted by Elo:
Both players 2600+ Elo followed by both players 2500+ Elo followed by both players 2400+ Elo

Then these 2 TAGs were added, which makes all 4 castlings illegal:
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w - 0 1"]

All games containing (now) illegal castling-moves were deleted (around 25% of all games)

2 different openings sets (as PGN- and EPD-file):
NCC_6mvs_2400+_30k = 29990 different endpositions. Both players 2400 Elo or better
NCC_6mvs_2600+_6k = 6743 different endpositions. Both players 2600 Elo or better



Personally, I doubt, that this make much sense and give low draw-rates, but if anybody wants to try it out, here it is:

https://www.sp-cc.de/files/nocastlingchess_openings.7z

(or download from my website, "Downloads & Links"-section)

Enjoy!