This Saturday, starting at 3 pm Eastern Daylight Time, Komodo Dragon will play a six game Rapid Match (blitz for Dragon) with GM Alex Lenderman (FIDE 2600, FIDE Rapid 2646) on chess.com. Handicap is two pawns and move, meaning Dragon is always Black and removes two pawns, one always being the f7 pawn (the worst pawn to remove from Black's perspective), and the other pawn each of the other seven pawns except for a7 (so the six largest possible two pawn handicaps). This even includes the almost ridiculous f7, g7 handicap where 1.e4 already threatens mate. Time limit for Lenderman the classic Rapid 15' + 10", for Dragon the classic blitz 3' + 2" (clocks will show 15', time limit set internally). Ten minutes between games, so match may run close to four hours. I will comment the games live in Chat based on analysis by Dragon on my 20 thread fast laptop, using the handle "Hissha". Look for games of "AlexanderL" and "PlayKomodo" to watch.
Although Dragon defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid, Dragon was White in those games. Playing first makes a big difference in handicap games, especially with the "f" pawn missing. Also the Nakamura games were with equal time, here we are giving five to one time odds plus the first move in each game. It's still less than knight odds, but giving knight odds Dragon's performance rating in Rapid is in the low 2400s, far below Lenderman's level, so this should be pretty close to balanced I think.
GM Lenderman vs Dragon, two pawns and move Rapid
Moderators: hgm, Dann Corbit, Harvey Williamson
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lkaufman
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GM Lenderman vs Dragon, two pawns and move Rapid
Komodo rules!
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Chessqueen
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Re: GM Lenderman vs Dragon, two pawns and move Rapid
What is the Elo difference when a super strong engine like Dragon play with White as in this case versus playing with the Black pieces, you mentioned that Dragon already defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid playing with the White pieces, but it is hard to figure what would have been the outcome if Dragon was playing with the Black pieces against Hikaru Nakamura, probably 3.5 to 3.5? It has to be seen for us to ever know what would had happened, or what would be the outcome if Dragon ever play as Black against Hikaru Nakamura in the near future ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:05 pm This Saturday, starting at 3 pm Eastern Daylight Time, Komodo Dragon will play a six game Rapid Match (blitz for Dragon) with GM Alex Lenderman (FIDE 2600, FIDE Rapid 2646) on chess.com. Handicap is two pawns and move, meaning Dragon is always Black and removes two pawns, one always being the f7 pawn (the worst pawn to remove from Black's perspective), and the other pawn each of the other seven pawns except for a7 (so the six largest possible two pawn handicaps). This even includes the almost ridiculous f7, g7 handicap where 1.e4 already threatens mate. Time limit for Lenderman the classic Rapid 15' + 10", for Dragon the classic blitz 3' + 2" (clocks will show 15', time limit set internally). Ten minutes between games, so match may run close to four hours. I will comment the games live in Chat based on analysis by Dragon on my 20 thread fast laptop, using the handle "Hissha". Look for games of "AlexanderL" and "PlayKomodo" to watch.
Although Dragon defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid, Dragon was White in those games. Playing first makes a big difference in handicap games, especially with the "f" pawn missing. Also the Nakamura games were with equal time, here we are giving five to one time odds plus the first move in each game. It's still less than knight odds, but giving knight odds Dragon's performance rating in Rapid is in the low 2400s, far below Lenderman's level, so this should be pretty close to balanced I think.
Forget about memorization of Opening Theories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN3381sdcdY
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lkaufman
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Re: GM Lenderman vs Dragon, two pawns and move Rapid
Normally in engine play the difference between playing White and playing Black is under 100 elo (twice the White elo advantage), but when the "f" pawn is missing it is much more, because after 1.e4 all the double pawn moves by Black lose a pawn (though 1...c5 does offer some compensation), so maybe about 150 elo difference. Just based on math, Nakamura would be expected to lose even playing White, but it's pretty clear that the 6.5 to 1.5 score was not a par result, Naka clearly went on "tilt" as they say in poker the second day, and he was surely paying too much attention to chat and streaming. If he played again with White without distraction from chat I would expect a much closer score, though still a Dragon match win. With Naka playing White and no chat distraction I think he would be a big favorite at these odds. Naka is roughly 200 elo stronger than Lenderman in Rapid, so however lenderman performs, I would expect Naka to perform about 200 elo better under the same conditions with no chat or stream distraction. In this match Lenderman has every reasonable factor in his favor for the two pawn handicap, no distractions, best possible choice of pawns (without repeating a handicap), five to one time odds, more practice playing Dragon at various odds both formally and informally than any other GM (except for me!), and decent financial incentive to do his best. This match should give us a good idea of what would be fair vs. Naka or MVL or another really top level GM in Rapid.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:50 amWhat is the Elo difference when a super strong engine like Dragon play with White as in this case versus playing with the Black pieces, you mentioned that Dragon already defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid playing with the White pieces, but it is hard to figure what would have been the outcome if Dragon was playing with the Black pieces against Hikaru Nakamura, probably 3.5 to 3.5? It has to be seen for us to ever know what would had happened, or what would be the outcome if Dragon ever play as Black against Hikaru Nakamura in the near future ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:05 pm This Saturday, starting at 3 pm Eastern Daylight Time, Komodo Dragon will play a six game Rapid Match (blitz for Dragon) with GM Alex Lenderman (FIDE 2600, FIDE Rapid 2646) on chess.com. Handicap is two pawns and move, meaning Dragon is always Black and removes two pawns, one always being the f7 pawn (the worst pawn to remove from Black's perspective), and the other pawn each of the other seven pawns except for a7 (so the six largest possible two pawn handicaps). This even includes the almost ridiculous f7, g7 handicap where 1.e4 already threatens mate. Time limit for Lenderman the classic Rapid 15' + 10", for Dragon the classic blitz 3' + 2" (clocks will show 15', time limit set internally). Ten minutes between games, so match may run close to four hours. I will comment the games live in Chat based on analysis by Dragon on my 20 thread fast laptop, using the handle "Hissha". Look for games of "AlexanderL" and "PlayKomodo" to watch.
Although Dragon defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid, Dragon was White in those games. Playing first makes a big difference in handicap games, especially with the "f" pawn missing. Also the Nakamura games were with equal time, here we are giving five to one time odds plus the first move in each game. It's still less than knight odds, but giving knight odds Dragon's performance rating in Rapid is in the low 2400s, far below Lenderman's level, so this should be pretty close to balanced I think.
Komodo rules!
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Chessqueen
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Re: GM Lenderman vs Dragon, two pawns and move Rapid
Therefore, what is your prediction of this match against GM Lenderman, even or slightly in favor of GM Lenderman?lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:14 amNormally in engine play the difference between playing White and playing Black is under 100 elo (twice the White elo advantage), but when the "f" pawn is missing it is much more, because after 1.e4 all the double pawn moves by Black lose a pawn (though 1...c5 does offer some compensation), so maybe about 150 elo difference. Just based on math, Nakamura would be expected to lose even playing White, but it's pretty clear that the 6.5 to 1.5 score was not a par result, Naka clearly went on "tilt" as they say in poker the second day, and he was surely paying too much attention to chat and streaming. If he played again with White without distraction from chat I would expect a much closer score, though still a Dragon match win. With Naka playing White and no chat distraction I think he would be a big favorite at these odds. Naka is roughly 200 elo stronger than Lenderman in Rapid, so however lenderman performs, I would expect Naka to perform about 200 elo better under the same conditions with no chat or stream distraction. In this match Lenderman has every reasonable factor in his favor for the two pawn handicap, no distractions, best possible choice of pawns (without repeating a handicap), five to one time odds, more practice playing Dragon at various odds both formally and informally than any other GM (except for me!), and decent financial incentive to do his best. This match should give us a good idea of what would be fair vs. Naka or MVL or another really top level GM in Rapid.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:50 amWhat is the Elo difference when a super strong engine like Dragon play with White as in this case versus playing with the Black pieces, you mentioned that Dragon already defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid playing with the White pieces, but it is hard to figure what would have been the outcome if Dragon was playing with the Black pieces against Hikaru Nakamura, probably 3.5 to 3.5? It has to be seen for us to ever know what would had happened, or what would be the outcome if Dragon ever play as Black against Hikaru Nakamura in the near future ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:05 pm This Saturday, starting at 3 pm Eastern Daylight Time, Komodo Dragon will play a six game Rapid Match (blitz for Dragon) with GM Alex Lenderman (FIDE 2600, FIDE Rapid 2646) on chess.com. Handicap is two pawns and move, meaning Dragon is always Black and removes two pawns, one always being the f7 pawn (the worst pawn to remove from Black's perspective), and the other pawn each of the other seven pawns except for a7 (so the six largest possible two pawn handicaps). This even includes the almost ridiculous f7, g7 handicap where 1.e4 already threatens mate. Time limit for Lenderman the classic Rapid 15' + 10", for Dragon the classic blitz 3' + 2" (clocks will show 15', time limit set internally). Ten minutes between games, so match may run close to four hours. I will comment the games live in Chat based on analysis by Dragon on my 20 thread fast laptop, using the handle "Hissha". Look for games of "AlexanderL" and "PlayKomodo" to watch.
Although Dragon defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid, Dragon was White in those games. Playing first makes a big difference in handicap games, especially with the "f" pawn missing. Also the Nakamura games were with equal time, here we are giving five to one time odds plus the first move in each game. It's still less than knight odds, but giving knight odds Dragon's performance rating in Rapid is in the low 2400s, far below Lenderman's level, so this should be pretty close to balanced I think.
Forget about memorization of Opening Theories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN3381sdcdY
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lkaufman
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Re: GM Lenderman vs Dragon, two pawns and move Rapid
I think it's pretty even. He is surely the favorite in the f7g7 game, Dragon is probably a slight favorite in the b7f7 game, the others seem like tossups to me. Note that these are pretty clearly the six largest possible two pawn handicaps (out of 56 total, 28 with each color). Komodo (pre-Dragon) was generally about even giving two Black pawns to GMs and IMs in Rapid, but they never included f7, so the current handicaps are all larger than any two pawn handicaps ever tried vs. a GM, and Lenderman is stronger than most if not all of the opponents in the past who took two Black pawn odds. One tiny change from the above is that we will be able to adjust Dragon's clock to show it starting with just the 3 minutes, although the increment shown on the clock will still be ten seconds but internally it will be two seconds.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:33 amTherefore, what is your prediction of this match against GM Lenderman, even or slightly in favor of GM Lenderman?lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:14 amNormally in engine play the difference between playing White and playing Black is under 100 elo (twice the White elo advantage), but when the "f" pawn is missing it is much more, because after 1.e4 all the double pawn moves by Black lose a pawn (though 1...c5 does offer some compensation), so maybe about 150 elo difference. Just based on math, Nakamura would be expected to lose even playing White, but it's pretty clear that the 6.5 to 1.5 score was not a par result, Naka clearly went on "tilt" as they say in poker the second day, and he was surely paying too much attention to chat and streaming. If he played again with White without distraction from chat I would expect a much closer score, though still a Dragon match win. With Naka playing White and no chat distraction I think he would be a big favorite at these odds. Naka is roughly 200 elo stronger than Lenderman in Rapid, so however lenderman performs, I would expect Naka to perform about 200 elo better under the same conditions with no chat or stream distraction. In this match Lenderman has every reasonable factor in his favor for the two pawn handicap, no distractions, best possible choice of pawns (without repeating a handicap), five to one time odds, more practice playing Dragon at various odds both formally and informally than any other GM (except for me!), and decent financial incentive to do his best. This match should give us a good idea of what would be fair vs. Naka or MVL or another really top level GM in Rapid.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:50 amWhat is the Elo difference when a super strong engine like Dragon play with White as in this case versus playing with the Black pieces, you mentioned that Dragon already defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid playing with the White pieces, but it is hard to figure what would have been the outcome if Dragon was playing with the Black pieces against Hikaru Nakamura, probably 3.5 to 3.5? It has to be seen for us to ever know what would had happened, or what would be the outcome if Dragon ever play as Black against Hikaru Nakamura in the near future ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:05 pm This Saturday, starting at 3 pm Eastern Daylight Time, Komodo Dragon will play a six game Rapid Match (blitz for Dragon) with GM Alex Lenderman (FIDE 2600, FIDE Rapid 2646) on chess.com. Handicap is two pawns and move, meaning Dragon is always Black and removes two pawns, one always being the f7 pawn (the worst pawn to remove from Black's perspective), and the other pawn each of the other seven pawns except for a7 (so the six largest possible two pawn handicaps). This even includes the almost ridiculous f7, g7 handicap where 1.e4 already threatens mate. Time limit for Lenderman the classic Rapid 15' + 10", for Dragon the classic blitz 3' + 2" (clocks will show 15', time limit set internally). Ten minutes between games, so match may run close to four hours. I will comment the games live in Chat based on analysis by Dragon on my 20 thread fast laptop, using the handle "Hissha". Look for games of "AlexanderL" and "PlayKomodo" to watch.
Although Dragon defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid, Dragon was White in those games. Playing first makes a big difference in handicap games, especially with the "f" pawn missing. Also the Nakamura games were with equal time, here we are giving five to one time odds plus the first move in each game. It's still less than knight odds, but giving knight odds Dragon's performance rating in Rapid is in the low 2400s, far below Lenderman's level, so this should be pretty close to balanced I think.
Komodo rules!
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Chessqueen
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Re: GM Lenderman vs Dragon, two pawns and move Rapid
You should have offered to replaced the f7g7 odds with just f7 and letting him make 2 initial moves with the White pieces, where Dragon move only after GM Lenderman makes his 2nd move, it would be more challenging and even for Dragon. The advantage would be that GM Lenderman can make 2 moves in the intial position with the White pieces.lkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:37 amI think it's pretty even. He is surely the favorite in the f7g7 game, Dragon is probably a slight favorite in the b7f7 game, the others seem like tossups to me. Note that these are pretty clearly the six largest possible two pawn handicaps (out of 56 total, 28 with each color). Komodo (pre-Dragon) was generally about even giving two Black pawns to GMs and IMs in Rapid, but they never included f7, so the current handicaps are all larger than any two pawn handicaps ever tried vs. a GM, and Lenderman is stronger than most if not all of the opponents in the past who took two Black pawn odds. One tiny change from the above is that we will be able to adjust Dragon's clock to show it starting with just the 3 minutes, although the increment shown on the clock will still be ten seconds but internally it will be two seconds.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:33 amTherefore, what is your prediction of this match against GM Lenderman, even or slightly in favor of GM Lenderman?lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:14 amNormally in engine play the difference between playing White and playing Black is under 100 elo (twice the White elo advantage), but when the "f" pawn is missing it is much more, because after 1.e4 all the double pawn moves by Black lose a pawn (though 1...c5 does offer some compensation), so maybe about 150 elo difference. Just based on math, Nakamura would be expected to lose even playing White, but it's pretty clear that the 6.5 to 1.5 score was not a par result, Naka clearly went on "tilt" as they say in poker the second day, and he was surely paying too much attention to chat and streaming. If he played again with White without distraction from chat I would expect a much closer score, though still a Dragon match win. With Naka playing White and no chat distraction I think he would be a big favorite at these odds. Naka is roughly 200 elo stronger than Lenderman in Rapid, so however lenderman performs, I would expect Naka to perform about 200 elo better under the same conditions with no chat or stream distraction. In this match Lenderman has every reasonable factor in his favor for the two pawn handicap, no distractions, best possible choice of pawns (without repeating a handicap), five to one time odds, more practice playing Dragon at various odds both formally and informally than any other GM (except for me!), and decent financial incentive to do his best. This match should give us a good idea of what would be fair vs. Naka or MVL or another really top level GM in Rapid.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:50 amWhat is the Elo difference when a super strong engine like Dragon play with White as in this case versus playing with the Black pieces, you mentioned that Dragon already defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid playing with the White pieces, but it is hard to figure what would have been the outcome if Dragon was playing with the Black pieces against Hikaru Nakamura, probably 3.5 to 3.5? It has to be seen for us to ever know what would had happened, or what would be the outcome if Dragon ever play as Black against Hikaru Nakamura in the near future ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:05 pm This Saturday, starting at 3 pm Eastern Daylight Time, Komodo Dragon will play a six game Rapid Match (blitz for Dragon) with GM Alex Lenderman (FIDE 2600, FIDE Rapid 2646) on chess.com. Handicap is two pawns and move, meaning Dragon is always Black and removes two pawns, one always being the f7 pawn (the worst pawn to remove from Black's perspective), and the other pawn each of the other seven pawns except for a7 (so the six largest possible two pawn handicaps). This even includes the almost ridiculous f7, g7 handicap where 1.e4 already threatens mate. Time limit for Lenderman the classic Rapid 15' + 10", for Dragon the classic blitz 3' + 2" (clocks will show 15', time limit set internally). Ten minutes between games, so match may run close to four hours. I will comment the games live in Chat based on analysis by Dragon on my 20 thread fast laptop, using the handle "Hissha". Look for games of "AlexanderL" and "PlayKomodo" to watch.
Although Dragon defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid, Dragon was White in those games. Playing first makes a big difference in handicap games, especially with the "f" pawn missing. Also the Nakamura games were with equal time, here we are giving five to one time odds plus the first move in each game. It's still less than knight odds, but giving knight odds Dragon's performance rating in Rapid is in the low 2400s, far below Lenderman's level, so this should be pretty close to balanced I think.
For instance the first 2 initial moves could be
[fen]rnbqkbnr/ppppp1pp/8/8/8/2N2N2/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq - 1 1[/fen]
Or this or any other that GM Lenderman choose
[fen]rnbqkbnr/ppppp1pp/8/8/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 2 1 [/fen]
If NOT since you already agreed with him to play this position you should first choose this one, and let him get comfortable, cocky, and over confident for the next 5 positions
[fen]rnbqkbnr/ppppp2p/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 3 1[/fen]
Forget about memorization of Opening Theories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN3381sdcdY
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Chessqueen
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Re: GM Lenderman vs Dragon, Practice Games on Chess.com
Can NOT find the direct Link in Chess.com Alexander Lenderman vs Komodo Dragon
https://www.chess.com/member/alexanderl
I do NOT see him starting the game against Komodo Dragon
Not here either https://www.chess.com/member/alexanderl
https://www.chess.com/member/alexanderl
I do NOT see him starting the game against Komodo Dragon
Not here either https://www.chess.com/member/alexanderl
Forget about memorization of Opening Theories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN3381sdcdY
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lkaufman
- Posts: 5942
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
- Location: Maryland USA
Re: GM Lenderman vs Dragon, two pawns and move Rapid
You are just proposing the classic "pawn and two move" handicap, which was pretty much the most important handicap in chess around the year 1800. We have already played many Rapid games against grandmasters (pre-Dragon) with that handicap, including even MVL and Nakamura, and Komodo never lost a single game that way (about a dozen played, roughly half drawn, half won by Komodo). It is a very big handicap, but less than any of the handicaps used today; the second move for White is quite valuable, but not quite worth a second pawn. Pawn and 3 moves (e4 and d4 played, f7 missing, White to move) is even larger than most of the handicaps used today; two extra White moves (with f7 missing) are worth more than a typical second pawn. We've actually played many training games between Alex L and Dragon at pawn and three moves, at 5' + 3" TC; Dragon comes out ahead, but it is competitive.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 5:22 pmYou should have offered to replaced the f7g7 odds with just f7 and letting him make 2 initial moves with the White pieces, where Dragon move only after GM Lenderman makes his 2nd move, it would be more challenging and even for Dragon. The advantage would be that GM Lenderman can make 2 moves in the intial position with the White pieces.lkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:37 amI think it's pretty even. He is surely the favorite in the f7g7 game, Dragon is probably a slight favorite in the b7f7 game, the others seem like tossups to me. Note that these are pretty clearly the six largest possible two pawn handicaps (out of 56 total, 28 with each color). Komodo (pre-Dragon) was generally about even giving two Black pawns to GMs and IMs in Rapid, but they never included f7, so the current handicaps are all larger than any two pawn handicaps ever tried vs. a GM, and Lenderman is stronger than most if not all of the opponents in the past who took two Black pawn odds. One tiny change from the above is that we will be able to adjust Dragon's clock to show it starting with just the 3 minutes, although the increment shown on the clock will still be ten seconds but internally it will be two seconds.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:33 amTherefore, what is your prediction of this match against GM Lenderman, even or slightly in favor of GM Lenderman?lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:14 amNormally in engine play the difference between playing White and playing Black is under 100 elo (twice the White elo advantage), but when the "f" pawn is missing it is much more, because after 1.e4 all the double pawn moves by Black lose a pawn (though 1...c5 does offer some compensation), so maybe about 150 elo difference. Just based on math, Nakamura would be expected to lose even playing White, but it's pretty clear that the 6.5 to 1.5 score was not a par result, Naka clearly went on "tilt" as they say in poker the second day, and he was surely paying too much attention to chat and streaming. If he played again with White without distraction from chat I would expect a much closer score, though still a Dragon match win. With Naka playing White and no chat distraction I think he would be a big favorite at these odds. Naka is roughly 200 elo stronger than Lenderman in Rapid, so however lenderman performs, I would expect Naka to perform about 200 elo better under the same conditions with no chat or stream distraction. In this match Lenderman has every reasonable factor in his favor for the two pawn handicap, no distractions, best possible choice of pawns (without repeating a handicap), five to one time odds, more practice playing Dragon at various odds both formally and informally than any other GM (except for me!), and decent financial incentive to do his best. This match should give us a good idea of what would be fair vs. Naka or MVL or another really top level GM in Rapid.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:50 amWhat is the Elo difference when a super strong engine like Dragon play with White as in this case versus playing with the Black pieces, you mentioned that Dragon already defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid playing with the White pieces, but it is hard to figure what would have been the outcome if Dragon was playing with the Black pieces against Hikaru Nakamura, probably 3.5 to 3.5? It has to be seen for us to ever know what would had happened, or what would be the outcome if Dragon ever play as Black against Hikaru Nakamura in the near future ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:05 pm This Saturday, starting at 3 pm Eastern Daylight Time, Komodo Dragon will play a six game Rapid Match (blitz for Dragon) with GM Alex Lenderman (FIDE 2600, FIDE Rapid 2646) on chess.com. Handicap is two pawns and move, meaning Dragon is always Black and removes two pawns, one always being the f7 pawn (the worst pawn to remove from Black's perspective), and the other pawn each of the other seven pawns except for a7 (so the six largest possible two pawn handicaps). This even includes the almost ridiculous f7, g7 handicap where 1.e4 already threatens mate. Time limit for Lenderman the classic Rapid 15' + 10", for Dragon the classic blitz 3' + 2" (clocks will show 15', time limit set internally). Ten minutes between games, so match may run close to four hours. I will comment the games live in Chat based on analysis by Dragon on my 20 thread fast laptop, using the handle "Hissha". Look for games of "AlexanderL" and "PlayKomodo" to watch.
Although Dragon defeated Hikaru Nakamura convincingly (6.5 to 1.5) at two pawn odds in Rapid, Dragon was White in those games. Playing first makes a big difference in handicap games, especially with the "f" pawn missing. Also the Nakamura games were with equal time, here we are giving five to one time odds plus the first move in each game. It's still less than knight odds, but giving knight odds Dragon's performance rating in Rapid is in the low 2400s, far below Lenderman's level, so this should be pretty close to balanced I think.
For instance the first 2 initial moves could be
[fen]rnbqkbnr/ppppp1pp/8/8/8/2N2N2/PPPPPPPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq - 1 1[/fen]
Or this or any other that GM Lenderman choose
[fen]rnbqkbnr/ppppp1pp/8/8/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 2 1 [/fen]
If NOT since you already agreed with him to play this position you should first choose this one, and let him get comfortable, cocky, and over confident for the next 5 positions:mrgreen:
[fen]rnbqkbnr/ppppp2p/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 3 1[/fen]
Komodo rules!
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lkaufman
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Re: GM Lenderman vs Dragon, Practice Games on Chess.com
The match was delayed half an hour by technical difficulties (something to do with the type of quotation marks used in the event name!), hopefully you saw it once it got underway. In the first game (b7/f7), Dragon disconnected and forfeited on time in an endgame with Komodo having a rook for five pawns, which was a theoretical draw with some practical chances for Dragon against a human opponent; Alex generously agreed to call it a draw. We had repeated disconnections thruout the match, we don't yet know the cause, but after the first game I was able to add 1 minute and reconnect in about that amount of time whenever this happened so it didn't really affect the remaining games significantly. In the next 3 games, (c7/f7, d7/f7, e7/f7), Dragon won every time with some surprising, even shocking, piece sacrifice, spectacular games! In the fifth game, f7/g7, Dragon was lucky to escape with a draw. In the final game, f7/h7, Alex managed to used the weakness on g6 to exchange queens and win the bishop pair right away, and he won pretty easily. So final score was 4 to 2 for Dragon (3 wins, 1 loss, 2 draws). My general conclusion is that unless White can force a queen trade while still up a solid two pawns, it is very difficult for even a strong GM to beat Dragon, and it is only with two king-flank pawns missing (f7 plus g7 or h7) that this is pretty easy to accomplish. It is amazing how many resources there are in middlegame positions down two pawns!Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:57 pm Can NOT find the direct Link in Chess.com Alexander Lenderman vs Komodo Dragon
https://www.chess.com/member/alexanderl
I do NOT see him starting the game against Komodo Dragon
Not here either https://www.chess.com/member/alexanderl
Komodo rules!
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lkaufman
- Posts: 5942
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
- Location: Maryland USA
Re: GM Lenderman vs Dragon, two pawns and move Rapid
[pgn]
[Event "two pawn odds match"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2022.03.19"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Lenderman, Alex"]
[Black "Komodo, Dragon"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2636"]
[BlackElo "3400"]
[Annotator "Kaufman,Larry"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/p1ppp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "117"]
[EventDate "2022.March.19"]
1. Nf3 Bb7 2. d4 Nf6 3. Bf4 e6 4. e3 Be7 5. Nbd2 Nh5 6. Bg3 O-O 7. Bd3 g6 8.
O-O a5 9. a4 Kh8 10. Be5+ Kg8 11. c3 Nc6 12. Bg3 Kh8 13. Ne5 Nxg3 14. Nxc6 Bxc6
15. hxg3 Ra7 16. Be4 d5 17. Bd3 Kg7 18. f4 Bd7 19. Nf3 Rb7 20. Rf2 c5 21. Ne5
Bd6 22. Nxd7 Qxd7 23. Bb5 Qd8 24. Qg4 Qf6 25. Re1 h5 26. Qe2 Be7 27. Kh2 g5 28.
Rh1 g4 29. Kg1 Rh8 30. Rf1 Bd6 31. Kf2 Qg6 32. Rd1 Rc7 33. Qd3 Qxd3 34. Rxd3
Kg6 35. Rdd1 Rcc8 36. Ke2 Kf6 37. Kd3 Rh6 38. e4 dxe4+ 39. Kxe4 cxd4 40. Rxd4
Bc5 41. Rc4 Rhh8 42. b4 Bf2 43. Bc6 $4 {White has played almost perfectly up
to here. This error is very hard to recognize as bad by a human player.} (43.
bxa5 $18 Rxc4+ 44. Bxc4 Bxg3 45. Be2) 43... axb4 44. cxb4 Rhd8 45. b5 $2 (45.
Rxh5 Rxc6 46. Rh6+ Kf7 47. Rxc6 Rd4+ 48. Ke5 Rd5+ 49. Ke4 $11) 45... Rd2 46.
Rxh5 Rcd8 47. Rh6+ Kg7 48. Rxe6 Re2+ 49. Kf5 Rf8+ 50. Kxg4 Rxe6 51. a5 Re3 52.
Bf3 Kf6 53. Rc6+ Re6 54. Bd5 Rxc6 55. Bxc6 {[#] Here Black disconnected and
forfeited on time before I realized what had happened. Alex generously agreed
to call it a draw since he would at best draw against Dragon from here. The
remaining moves are a plausible continuation suggested by Dragon.} Rd8 56. Kf3
Bg1 57. g4 Rd3+ 58. Ke4 Rd4+ 59. Kf3 {Black can choose to repeat or play on
trying to win, but result should be a draw if White plays well.} 1/2-1/2 [pgn][/pgn][/pgn]
[Event "two pawn odds match"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2022.03.19"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Lenderman, Alex"]
[Black "Komodo, Dragon"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2636"]
[BlackElo "3400"]
[Annotator "Kaufman,Larry"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/p1ppp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "117"]
[EventDate "2022.March.19"]
1. Nf3 Bb7 2. d4 Nf6 3. Bf4 e6 4. e3 Be7 5. Nbd2 Nh5 6. Bg3 O-O 7. Bd3 g6 8.
O-O a5 9. a4 Kh8 10. Be5+ Kg8 11. c3 Nc6 12. Bg3 Kh8 13. Ne5 Nxg3 14. Nxc6 Bxc6
15. hxg3 Ra7 16. Be4 d5 17. Bd3 Kg7 18. f4 Bd7 19. Nf3 Rb7 20. Rf2 c5 21. Ne5
Bd6 22. Nxd7 Qxd7 23. Bb5 Qd8 24. Qg4 Qf6 25. Re1 h5 26. Qe2 Be7 27. Kh2 g5 28.
Rh1 g4 29. Kg1 Rh8 30. Rf1 Bd6 31. Kf2 Qg6 32. Rd1 Rc7 33. Qd3 Qxd3 34. Rxd3
Kg6 35. Rdd1 Rcc8 36. Ke2 Kf6 37. Kd3 Rh6 38. e4 dxe4+ 39. Kxe4 cxd4 40. Rxd4
Bc5 41. Rc4 Rhh8 42. b4 Bf2 43. Bc6 $4 {White has played almost perfectly up
to here. This error is very hard to recognize as bad by a human player.} (43.
bxa5 $18 Rxc4+ 44. Bxc4 Bxg3 45. Be2) 43... axb4 44. cxb4 Rhd8 45. b5 $2 (45.
Rxh5 Rxc6 46. Rh6+ Kf7 47. Rxc6 Rd4+ 48. Ke5 Rd5+ 49. Ke4 $11) 45... Rd2 46.
Rxh5 Rcd8 47. Rh6+ Kg7 48. Rxe6 Re2+ 49. Kf5 Rf8+ 50. Kxg4 Rxe6 51. a5 Re3 52.
Bf3 Kf6 53. Rc6+ Re6 54. Bd5 Rxc6 55. Bxc6 {[#] Here Black disconnected and
forfeited on time before I realized what had happened. Alex generously agreed
to call it a draw since he would at best draw against Dragon from here. The
remaining moves are a plausible continuation suggested by Dragon.} Rd8 56. Kf3
Bg1 57. g4 Rd3+ 58. Ke4 Rd4+ 59. Kf3 {Black can choose to repeat or play on
trying to win, but result should be a draw if White plays well.} 1/2-1/2 [pgn][/pgn][/pgn]
Komodo rules!