With best play White can NOT lose to Black, it can at least draw
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2022.12.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Black "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "20:40:13"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3kq3/2p4p/pp5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1P4K1/N7 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "0"][/pgn]
This person is Wrong Stockfish can solve this Puzzle
Moderator: Ras
-
Chessqueen
- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
-
Ajedrecista
- Posts: 2164
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
- Location: Madrid, Spain.
This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.
Hello:
It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009:
https://yacpdb.org/#331984
[d]3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1
I found the original source of the problem and its proposed solution thanks to the information provided by YACPDB:
Mat Plus magazine (archive).
Mat Plus No. 35 (Autumn 2009). (Publication of the problem 1354 at page 44).
Mat Plus No. 36 (Winter 2009). (Solution of the problem 1354 at page 81, with corrections and more).
The refutation of the original problem can be found at Rybka Forum. Other links are found at the page 81 of Mat Plus No. 36.
The original problem won the second honourable mention according to Arves website:
Studies awarded for the Magazine tournament Mat Plus 2009.
[pgn][Event "2.hm MatPlus 2009"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2009.05.29"]
[Round ""]
[White "Meghina=M"]
[Black ""]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "2009"]
[SourceDate "2005.01.24"]
1. Nd4 (1. Kf3 $2 Qxd3+ $11) 1... Qg7+ 2. Kh3 Qxh6 3. Nf4 Kd7 ({COOK-->>(MG)} 3... Kc8 4. Nde6 c5 5. b3 (5. h5 c4 6. Kg4 Kb7 7. Kf3 Ka6 8. Ke4 Ka5 9. Kd4 Kxa4 10. Kxc4 a5) (5. b4 cxb4 6. cxb4 a5 7. bxa5 Kb7 8. h5 Ka6) 5... Kb7 6. h5 Ka6 7. b4 (7. Kg4 Ka5 8. Kf3 c4) 7... cxb4 8. cxb4 Kb7 9. Kg4 a5 10. b5 Kc8 11. Kf3 Kd7 12. Ke4 Ke7 13. Kd5 Kd7 $11) 4. Nde6 {{Completing the fortress} 4... Qxe6+ $2 (4... c5 5. Kg4 Kc6 6. b4 b5 7. a5 cxb4 8. cxb4 a6 9. h5 Kb7 10. Kf5 Kb8 11. Ke4 Ka7 12. Kd5 Kb7 13. Kd6 Kb8 14. Kc6 Ka7 15. Kc7 $18) (4... a5 5. h5 c6 6. Kg4 $19) (4... c6 5. h5 Kc8 6. Kg4 a5 $19) 5. Nxe6 Kxe6 6. Kg4 Kxe5 7. Kg5 {and the easy technical win:} 7... c5 8. Kh6 Kf6 9. Kxh7 Kf7 10. b4 a6 11. bxc5 bxc5 12. c4 a5 13. h5 Kf6 14. Kg8 Kg5 15. Kf7 Kxh5 16. Ke6 Kg5 17. Kd5 Kf6 18. Kxc5 *[/pgn]
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009:
https://yacpdb.org/#331984
[d]3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1
I found the original source of the problem and its proposed solution thanks to the information provided by YACPDB:
Mat Plus magazine (archive).
Mat Plus No. 35 (Autumn 2009). (Publication of the problem 1354 at page 44).
Mat Plus No. 36 (Winter 2009). (Solution of the problem 1354 at page 81, with corrections and more).
The refutation of the original problem can be found at Rybka Forum. Other links are found at the page 81 of Mat Plus No. 36.
The original problem won the second honourable mention according to Arves website:
Studies awarded for the Magazine tournament Mat Plus 2009.
[pgn][Event "2.hm MatPlus 2009"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2009.05.29"]
[Round ""]
[White "Meghina=M"]
[Black ""]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "2009"]
[SourceDate "2005.01.24"]
1. Nd4 (1. Kf3 $2 Qxd3+ $11) 1... Qg7+ 2. Kh3 Qxh6 3. Nf4 Kd7 ({COOK-->>(MG)} 3... Kc8 4. Nde6 c5 5. b3 (5. h5 c4 6. Kg4 Kb7 7. Kf3 Ka6 8. Ke4 Ka5 9. Kd4 Kxa4 10. Kxc4 a5) (5. b4 cxb4 6. cxb4 a5 7. bxa5 Kb7 8. h5 Ka6) 5... Kb7 6. h5 Ka6 7. b4 (7. Kg4 Ka5 8. Kf3 c4) 7... cxb4 8. cxb4 Kb7 9. Kg4 a5 10. b5 Kc8 11. Kf3 Kd7 12. Ke4 Ke7 13. Kd5 Kd7 $11) 4. Nde6 {{Completing the fortress} 4... Qxe6+ $2 (4... c5 5. Kg4 Kc6 6. b4 b5 7. a5 cxb4 8. cxb4 a6 9. h5 Kb7 10. Kf5 Kb8 11. Ke4 Ka7 12. Kd5 Kb7 13. Kd6 Kb8 14. Kc6 Ka7 15. Kc7 $18) (4... a5 5. h5 c6 6. Kg4 $19) (4... c6 5. h5 Kc8 6. Kg4 a5 $19) 5. Nxe6 Kxe6 6. Kg4 Kxe5 7. Kg5 {and the easy technical win:} 7... c5 8. Kh6 Kf6 9. Kxh7 Kf7 10. b4 a6 11. bxc5 bxc5 12. c4 a5 13. h5 Kf6 14. Kg8 Kg5 15. Kf7 Kxh5 16. Ke6 Kg5 17. Kd5 Kf6 18. Kxc5 *[/pgn]
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
-
Kornrade
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:18 am
Re: This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.
Full history of publications and relevant pdf's are available at https://chichitza.ro/Chess.html?lang=en&aux=01Ajedrecista wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:07 pm
It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009
TLDR: co-author Peter Martan
Initial (cooked) version published in MatPlus [2009] (refutation on Rybka forum)
Final version published in Glarean [2009]
Story of the study published in book "A Study Apiece" [G.Josten,2010]
Mentioned in academic paper "Chess, Imagination and Perceptual Understanding" [P.Coates,2013]
I am not aware how/where the OP version got around
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Ajedrecista
- Posts: 2164
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
- Location: Madrid, Spain.
Re: This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.
Hello:
Mat Plus Review 13-14 (Spring-Summer 2010). (Pages 103 and 104).
A comment on the YouTube video says that the problem was posted on Reddit. I have just found a Reddit thread with the modified position:
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments ... s_in_this/
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
Thank you for provide a working link from Chichitza site. I want to add the Mat Plus issue where your problem won the second honourable mention:Kornrade wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:14 pmFull history of publications and relevant pdf's are available at https://chichitza.ro/Chess.html?lang=en&aux=01Ajedrecista wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:07 pm
It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009
TLDR: co-author Peter Martan
Initial (cooked) version published in MatPlus [2009] (refutation on Rybka forum)
Final version published in Glarean [2009]
Story of the study published in book "A Study Apiece" [G.Josten,2010]
Mentioned in academic paper "Chess, Imagination and Perceptual Understanding" [P.Coates,2013]
I am not aware how/where the OP version got around![]()
Mat Plus Review 13-14 (Spring-Summer 2010). (Pages 103 and 104).
A comment on the YouTube video says that the problem was posted on Reddit. I have just found a Reddit thread with the modified position:
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments ... s_in_this/
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
-
Chessqueen
- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.
What would happen if the Queen does NOT take and instead the Black King goes to c6, there is no way for White to winAjedrecista wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:07 pm Hello:
It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009:
https://yacpdb.org/#331984
[d]3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1
I found the original source of the problem and its proposed solution thanks to the information provided by YACPDB:
Mat Plus magazine (archive).
Mat Plus No. 35 (Autumn 2009). (Publication of the problem 1354 at page 44).
Mat Plus No. 36 (Winter 2009). (Solution of the problem 1354 at page 81, with corrections and more).
The refutation of the original problem can be found at Rybka Forum. Other links are found at the page 81 of Mat Plus No. 36.
The original problem won the second honourable mention according to Arves website:
Studies awarded for the Magazine tournament Mat Plus 2009.
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
[pgn][Event "2.hm MatPlus 2009"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2009.05.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Black "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3650"]
[WhiteElo "3650"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "11"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. Nd4 (1. Kf3 Qxd3+) 1. .. Qg7+ 2. Kh3 Qxh6 3. Nf4 Kd7 (3. .. Kc8 4. Nde6
c5 5. b3 (5. h5 5. .. c4 6. Kg4 Kb7 7. Kf3 Ka6 8. Ke4 Ka5 9. Kd4 Kxa4 10.
Kxc4 a5) (5. b4 cxb4 6. cxb4 a5 7. bxa5 Kb7 8. h5 Ka6) 5. .. Kb7 6. h5 Ka6
7. b4 (7. Kg4 Ka5 8. Kf3 c4) 7. .. cxb4 8. cxb4 Kb7 9. Kg4 a5 10. b5 Kc8
11. Kf3 Kd7 12. Ke4 Ke7 13. Kd5 Kd7) 4. Nde6 Kc6![/pgn]
-
Paloma
- Posts: 1217
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:07 pm
- Full name: Herbert L
Re: This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.
X .Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:37 pmWhat would happen if the Queen does NOT take and instead the Black King goes to c6, there is no way for White to winAjedrecista wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:07 pm Hello:
It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009:
https://yacpdb.org/#331984
[d]3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1
I found the original source of the problem and its proposed solution thanks to the information provided by YACPDB:
Mat Plus magazine (archive).
Mat Plus No. 35 (Autumn 2009). (Publication of the problem 1354 at page 44).
Mat Plus No. 36 (Winter 2009). (Solution of the problem 1354 at page 81, with corrections and more).
The refutation of the original problem can be found at Rybka Forum. Other links are found at the page 81 of Mat Plus No. 36.
The original problem won the second honourable mention according to Arves website:
Studies awarded for the Magazine tournament Mat Plus 2009.
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
[pgn][Event "2.hm MatPlus 2009"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2009.05.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Black "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3650"]
[WhiteElo "3650"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "11"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. Nd4 (1. Kf3 Qxd3+) 1. .. Qg7+ 2. Kh3 Qxh6 3. Nf4 Kd7 (3. .. Kc8 4. Nde6
c5 5. b3 (5. h5 5. .. c4 6. Kg4 Kb7 7. Kf3 Ka6 8. Ke4 Ka5 9. Kd4 Kxa4 10.
Kxc4 a5) (5. b4 cxb4 6. cxb4 a5 7. bxa5 Kb7 8. h5 Ka6) 5. .. Kb7 6. h5 Ka6
7. b4 (7. Kg4 Ka5 8. Kf3 c4) 7. .. cxb4 8. cxb4 Kb7 9. Kg4 a5 10. b5 Kc8
11. Kf3 Kd7 12. Ke4 Ke7 13. Kd5 Kd7) 4. Nde6 Kc6![/pgn]