This person is Wrong Stockfish can solve this Puzzle

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Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

This person is Wrong Stockfish can solve this Puzzle

Post by Chessqueen »

With best play White can NOT lose to Black, it can at least draw

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2022.12.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Black "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "20:40:13"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3kq3/2p4p/pp5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1P4K1/N7 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "0"][/pgn]
User avatar
Ajedrecista
Posts: 2164
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain.

This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello:

It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009:

https://yacpdb.org/#331984

[d]3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1

I found the original source of the problem and its proposed solution thanks to the information provided by YACPDB:

Mat Plus magazine (archive).

Mat Plus No. 35 (Autumn 2009). (Publication of the problem 1354 at page 44).
Mat Plus No. 36 (Winter 2009). (Solution of the problem 1354 at page 81, with corrections and more).

The refutation of the original problem can be found at Rybka Forum. Other links are found at the page 81 of Mat Plus No. 36.

The original problem won the second honourable mention according to Arves website:

Studies awarded for the Magazine tournament Mat Plus 2009.

[pgn][Event "2.hm MatPlus 2009"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2009.05.29"]
[Round ""]
[White "Meghina=M"]
[Black ""]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "2009"]
[SourceDate "2005.01.24"]

1. Nd4 (1. Kf3 $2 Qxd3+ $11) 1... Qg7+ 2. Kh3 Qxh6 3. Nf4 Kd7 ({COOK-->>(MG)} 3... Kc8 4. Nde6 c5 5. b3 (5. h5 c4 6. Kg4 Kb7 7. Kf3 Ka6 8. Ke4 Ka5 9. Kd4 Kxa4 10. Kxc4 a5) (5. b4 cxb4 6. cxb4 a5 7. bxa5 Kb7 8. h5 Ka6) 5... Kb7 6. h5 Ka6 7. b4 (7. Kg4 Ka5 8. Kf3 c4) 7... cxb4 8. cxb4 Kb7 9. Kg4 a5 10. b5 Kc8 11. Kf3 Kd7 12. Ke4 Ke7 13. Kd5 Kd7 $11) 4. Nde6 {{Completing the fortress} 4... Qxe6+ $2 (4... c5 5. Kg4 Kc6 6. b4 b5 7. a5 cxb4 8. cxb4 a6 9. h5 Kb7 10. Kf5 Kb8 11. Ke4 Ka7 12. Kd5 Kb7 13. Kd6 Kb8 14. Kc6 Ka7 15. Kc7 $18) (4... a5 5. h5 c6 6. Kg4 $19) (4... c6 5. h5 Kc8 6. Kg4 a5 $19) 5. Nxe6 Kxe6 6. Kg4 Kxe5 7. Kg5 {and the easy technical win:} 7... c5 8. Kh6 Kf6 9. Kxh7 Kf7 10. b4 a6 11. bxc5 bxc5 12. c4 a5 13. h5 Kf6 14. Kg8 Kg5 15. Kf7 Kxh5 16. Ke6 Kg5 17. Kd5 Kf6 18. Kxc5 *[/pgn]

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
Kornrade
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:18 am

Re: This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.

Post by Kornrade »

Ajedrecista wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:07 pm
It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009
Full history of publications and relevant pdf's are available at https://chichitza.ro/Chess.html?lang=en&aux=01

TLDR: co-author Peter Martan
Initial (cooked) version published in MatPlus [2009] (refutation on Rybka forum)
Final version published in Glarean [2009]
Story of the study published in book "A Study Apiece" [G.Josten,2010]
Mentioned in academic paper "Chess, Imagination and Perceptual Understanding" [P.Coates,2013]

I am not aware how/where the OP version got around :)
User avatar
Ajedrecista
Posts: 2164
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain.

Re: This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello:
Kornrade wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:14 pm
Ajedrecista wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:07 pm
It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009
Full history of publications and relevant pdf's are available at https://chichitza.ro/Chess.html?lang=en&aux=01

TLDR: co-author Peter Martan
Initial (cooked) version published in MatPlus [2009] (refutation on Rybka forum)
Final version published in Glarean [2009]
Story of the study published in book "A Study Apiece" [G.Josten,2010]
Mentioned in academic paper "Chess, Imagination and Perceptual Understanding" [P.Coates,2013]

I am not aware how/where the OP version got around :)
Thank you for provide a working link from Chichitza site. I want to add the Mat Plus issue where your problem won the second honourable mention:

Mat Plus Review 13-14 (Spring-Summer 2010). (Pages 103 and 104).

A comment on the YouTube video says that the problem was posted on Reddit. I have just found a Reddit thread with the modified position:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments ... s_in_this/

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.

Post by Chessqueen »

Ajedrecista wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:07 pm Hello:

It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009:

https://yacpdb.org/#331984

[d]3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1

I found the original source of the problem and its proposed solution thanks to the information provided by YACPDB:

Mat Plus magazine (archive).

Mat Plus No. 35 (Autumn 2009). (Publication of the problem 1354 at page 44).
Mat Plus No. 36 (Winter 2009). (Solution of the problem 1354 at page 81, with corrections and more).

The refutation of the original problem can be found at Rybka Forum. Other links are found at the page 81 of Mat Plus No. 36.

The original problem won the second honourable mention according to Arves website:

Studies awarded for the Magazine tournament Mat Plus 2009.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
What would happen if the Queen does NOT take and instead the Black King goes to c6, there is no way for White to win

[pgn][Event "2.hm MatPlus 2009"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2009.05.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Black "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3650"]
[WhiteElo "3650"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "11"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Nd4 (1. Kf3 Qxd3+) 1. .. Qg7+ 2. Kh3 Qxh6 3. Nf4 Kd7 (3. .. Kc8 4. Nde6
c5 5. b3 (5. h5 5. .. c4 6. Kg4 Kb7 7. Kf3 Ka6 8. Ke4 Ka5 9. Kd4 Kxa4 10.
Kxc4 a5) (5. b4 cxb4 6. cxb4 a5 7. bxa5 Kb7 8. h5 Ka6) 5. .. Kb7 6. h5 Ka6
7. b4 (7. Kg4 Ka5 8. Kf3 c4) 7. .. cxb4 8. cxb4 Kb7 9. Kg4 a5 10. b5 Kc8
11. Kf3 Kd7 12. Ke4 Ke7 13. Kd5 Kd7) 4. Nde6 Kc6![/pgn]
Paloma
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:07 pm
Full name: Herbert L

Re: This person is wrong: Stockfish can solve this puzzle.

Post by Paloma »

Chessqueen wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:37 pm
Ajedrecista wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:07 pm Hello:

It is a slightly modified version of a problem by Neghina from 2009:

https://yacpdb.org/#331984

[d]3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1

I found the original source of the problem and its proposed solution thanks to the information provided by YACPDB:

Mat Plus magazine (archive).

Mat Plus No. 35 (Autumn 2009). (Publication of the problem 1354 at page 44).
Mat Plus No. 36 (Winter 2009). (Solution of the problem 1354 at page 81, with corrections and more).

The refutation of the original problem can be found at Rybka Forum. Other links are found at the page 81 of Mat Plus No. 36.

The original problem won the second honourable mention according to Arves website:

Studies awarded for the Magazine tournament Mat Plus 2009.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
What would happen if the Queen does NOT take and instead the Black King goes to c6, there is no way for White to win

[pgn][Event "2.hm MatPlus 2009"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2009.05.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Black "Stockfish-FD-XI-r1"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3650"]
[WhiteElo "3650"]
[TimeControl "900+10"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "3k4/p1pq3p/1p5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "11"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Nd4 (1. Kf3 Qxd3+) 1. .. Qg7+ 2. Kh3 Qxh6 3. Nf4 Kd7 (3. .. Kc8 4. Nde6
c5 5. b3 (5. h5 5. .. c4 6. Kg4 Kb7 7. Kf3 Ka6 8. Ke4 Ka5 9. Kd4 Kxa4 10.
Kxc4 a5) (5. b4 cxb4 6. cxb4 a5 7. bxa5 Kb7 8. h5 Ka6) 5. .. Kb7 6. h5 Ka6
7. b4 (7. Kg4 Ka5 8. Kf3 c4) 7. .. cxb4 8. cxb4 Kb7 9. Kg4 a5 10. b5 Kc8
11. Kf3 Kd7 12. Ke4 Ke7 13. Kd5 Kd7) 4. Nde6 Kc6![/pgn]
X .