For instance, If you are learning opposition simply let a top engine show you, and try again and again with different top engines until you master the opposition
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.02.26"]
[Round "?"]
[White "ChessQueen"]
[Black "Dragon-3.2-64bit-avx2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3535"]
[Time "22:10:36"]
[WhiteElo "3535"]
[TimeControl "0+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/8/3k4/3P4/3K4/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "27"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. ... Ke6 {(Kd5-e6 Kd3-c4 Ke6-d6 d4-d5 Kd6-e7 Kc4-c5 Ke7-d7 Kc5-d4 Kd7-d6
Kd4-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d7 Ke5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-e4 Kd8-e8
Ke4-d5 Ke8-d8) 0.00/80 0} 2. Ke4 {(Kd3-e4 Ke6-d6 d4-d5 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7
d5-d6+ Ke7-d7 Ke5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-b5 Kc8-d7 Kb5-c5 Kd7-d8
Kc5-d4 Kd8-c8 Kd4-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-d5 Ke8-d8)
0.00/80 0} Kd6 {(Ke6-d6 d4-d5 Kd6-c7 Ke4-e5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d8 Kd5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-e5
Ke8-d7 Ke5-d5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/83 0} 3. Kd3 {(Ke4-d3 Kd6-e7 Kd3-e4 Ke7-d6)
0.00/75 0} Kd5 {(Kd6-d5 Kd3-c3 Kd5-c6 Kc3-c4 Kc6-d6 d4-d5 Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5
Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d7 Kc5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-e4 Kd8-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-b5 Kc8-d8 Kb5-c5 Kd8-d7) 0.00/81 0}
4. Kc3 {(Kd3-c3 Kd5-e6 Kc3-c4 Ke6-d6 d4-d5 Kd6-e7 Kc4-d3 Ke7-d6 Kd3-d4
Kd6-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 Kc5-c4 Kc7-d7 Kc4-c5) 0.00/55 0} Ke6 {(Kd5-e6 Kc3-c4
Ke6-d6 d4-d5 Kd6-e7 Kc4-c5 Ke7-d7 Kc5-d4 Kd7-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-c7 Ke4-e3 Kc7-d6
Ke3-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 Kc5-c4 Kc7-d7 Kc4-c5) 0.00/60 0} 5. Kc4
{(Kc3-c4 Ke6-d6 d4-d5 Kd6-e7 Kc4-c5 Ke7-d7 Kc5-d4 Kd7-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-c7
Ke4-e3 Kc7-d6 Ke3-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 Kc5-c4 Kc7-d7 Kc4-c5) 0.00/63 0}
Kd6 {(Ke6-d6 Kc4-d3 Kd6-d5 Kd3-c3) 0.00/75 0} 6. Kd3 {(Kc4-d3 Kd6-c6 Kd3-c4
Kc6-d6) 0.00/71 0} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7 Kd3-c3 Kd7-e6 Kc3-d3 Ke6-d5) 0.00/81 0} 7.
Ke4 {(Kd3-e4 Kd7-d6 Ke4-f3 Kd6-d5 Kf3-e3 Kd5-e6 Ke3-d3 Ke6-d7) 0.00/66 0}
Kd6 {(Kd7-d6 d4-d5 Kd6-e7 Ke4-d4 Ke7-d8 Kd4-c5 Kd8-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6
Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d8 Kd5-d4 Kd8-c8 Kd4-e5 Kc8-d7 Ke5-d5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/82 0}
8. d5 {(d4-d5 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 Kc5-d4
Kc7-d7) 0.00/83 0} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-e4 Ke7-d7) 0.00/80 0} 9.
Ke5 {(Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d7 Ke5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-b5 Kc8-d8
Kb5-b6 Kd8-d7 Kb6-c5 Kd7-d8 Kc5-d4 Kd8-d7 Kd4-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8
Ke6-e5 Ke8-d7) 0.00/82 0} Ke7 {(Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 Kc5-d4
Kc7-d6 Kd4-c4 Kd6-e7 Kc4-c5 Ke7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8
Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-d5 Ke8-d7) 0.00/84 0} 10. d6+ {(d5-d6+ Ke7-d7 Ke5-d5
Kd7-d8 Kd5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-e5 Ke8-d7) 0.00/84 0} Kd8 {(Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7
Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/99 0} 11. Kd5 {(Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/99 0}
Kd7 {(Kd8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-d5 Ke8-d7) 0.00/99 0} 12. Ke5
{(Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-d5 Ke8-d7) 0.00/99 0} Kd8 {(Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6
Kd8-e8 Ke6-e5 Ke8-d7 Ke5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d8) 0.00/99 0}
13. Kd4 {(Ke5-d4 Kd8-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7) 0.00/96
0} Ke8 {(Kd8-e8 Kd4-e5 Ke8-d7 Ke5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-d5 Ke8-d8)
0.00/99 0} 14. Ke5 {(Kd4-e5 Ke8-d7 Ke5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-c4 Kd8-c8 Kc4-d4
Kc8-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d8) 0.00/99 0} Kd8 {(Ke8-d8)
0.00/99 0 3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
Best way to learn endgame is by using technology
Moderator: Ras
-
Chessqueen
- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Best way to learn endgame is by using technology
Last edited by Chessqueen on Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:20 am, edited 5 times in total.
-
CornfedForever
- Posts: 650
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:08 am
- Full name: Brian D. Smith
Re: Best way to learn endgame is by using technology
Sorry, I have to disagree. These are...just moves.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:03 am For instance, If you are learning opposition simply let a top engine show you
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.02.26"]
[Round "?"]
[White "human"]
[Black "Stockfish_23022419_x64_avx2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3535"]
[Time "21:55:40"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "0+2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/8/3k4/3P4/3K4/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. ... Kd6 {(Kd5-d6 Kd3-c4 Kd6-c6 d4-d5+ Kc6-c7 Kc4-c5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8
Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7) 0.00/55 1} 2. Kc4 {(Kd3-c4 Kd6-c6 d4-d5+ Kc6-d6 Kc4-d4
Kd6-d7 Kd4-d3 Kd7-c7 Kd3-c3 Kc7-d7 Kc3-b4 Kd7-d6 Kb4-c4 Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5
Kd7-c7 Kc5-d4 Kc7-d7) +0.01/78 1} Kc6 {(Kd6-c6 d4-d5+ Kc6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7
d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/57 1} 3. d5+ {(d4-d5+
Kc6-d6 Kc4-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-d3 Kd7-c7 Kd3-c3 Kc7-d7 Kc3-d4 Kd7-d6 Kd4-e4
Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6) +0.01/86 1} Kd7 {(Kc6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7
d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8
Ke6-f5 Ke8-d7) 0.00/53 2} 4. Kc5 {(Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7 Kc5-d4 Kc7-d7 Kd4-e3
Kd7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6 Kd4-c4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/90 1}
Kc7 {(Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-f4
Kd8-d7) 0.00/57 1} 5. Kd4 {(Kc5-d4 Kc7-d7 Kd4-e3 Kd7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-d7
Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6 Kd4-c4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/94 2} Kd6 {(Kc7-d6 Kd4-c4
Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-c5)
0.00/59 2} 6. Kc4 {(Kd4-c4 Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7) +0.01/95 1} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7
Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/52 2} 7. Kc3
{(Kc4-c3 Kd7-d6 Kc3-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-e3 Kd7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-e7 Ke4-e5 Ke7-d7
Ke5-d4 Kd7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kc7 {(Kd7-c7 Kc3-d4 Kc7-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5
Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/56 1} 8. Kd3
{(Kc3-d3 Kc7-d7 Kd3-e4 Kd7-d6 Ke4-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-d3 Kd7-e7 Kd3-e4 Ke7-d6)
+0.01/99 1} Kd8 {(Kc7-d8 Kd3-d4 Kd8-c7 Kd4-e5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/58 1} 9. Ke4 {(Kd3-e4 Kd8-e7 Ke4-e5 Ke7-d7
Ke5-d4 Kd7-d6) +0.01/99 1} Kc7 {(Kd8-c7 Ke4-e5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/54 1} 10. Ke3 {(Ke4-e3 Kc7-d7 Ke3-d4 Kd7-d6)
+0.01/99 0} Kd6 {(Kc7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-b6 Kc8-d7 Kb6-c5) 0.00/58 1} 11. Kd4
{(Ke3-d4 Kd6-c7 Kd4-c5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d8
Kd5-e4 Kd8-d7 Ke4-d5 Kd7-d8) +0.01/99 0} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7 Kd4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+
Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/58 1} 12. Kd3 {(Kd4-d3 Kd7-e7
Kd3-e3 Ke7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kc8 {(Kd7-c8 Kd3-d4 Kc8-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+
Kc7-d7 Kc5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-f6 Ke8-d7 Kf6-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/49 2}
13. Ke4 {(Kd3-e4 Kc8-c7 Ke4-e3 Kc7-d7 Ke3-d4 Kd7-d6) +0.01/98 1} Kd7
{(Kc8-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d4 Kd8-d7 Kd4-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-e6)
0.00/54 1} 14. Ke5 {(Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6) +0.01/98 2} Ke7 {(Kd7-e7
d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d4 Kd8-e8 Kd4-c4 Ke8-d8) 0.00/55 2} 15. Kd4 {(Ke5-d4
Ke7-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/99 1} Kd7 {(Ke7-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8
Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-e5) 0.00/48 2}
16. Kd3 {(Kd4-d3 Kd7-e7 Kd3-e3 Ke7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kc7 {(Kd7-c7 Kd3-e3
Kc7-d8 Ke3-f4 Kd8-d7 Kf4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5
Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5) 0.00/59 1} 17. Kc3 {(Kd3-c3 Kc7-d7 Kc3-d4
Kd7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kd6 {(Kc7-d6 Kc3-b4 Kd6xd5 Kb4-a5 Kd5-c5 Ka5-a6 Kc5-b4
Ka6-b7 Kb4-b3 Kb7-b8 Kb3-a2 Kb8-a7 Ka2-b1 Ka7-b6 Kb1-a2 Kb6-b5 Ka2-b2
Kb5-a4 Kb2-b1 Ka4-a5 Kb1-b2 Ka5-b5 Kb2-c1 Kb5-a6 Kc1-d2 Ka6-b7 Kd2-c2
Kb7-b8 Kc2-b1 Kb8-b7 Kb1-b2 Kb7-c7 Kb2-c2 Kc7-c8 Kc2-c3 Kc8-b8 Kc3-d4
Kb8-c8 Kd4-d5 Kc8-b7 Kd5-e5) 0.00/41 1} 18. Kd4 {(Kc3-d4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/99
0} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7) 0.00/68 1 3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
The BEST way to learn an endgame is the old way...with 'words'. In this case, verbal explaination of the term 'opposition'.
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Chessqueen
- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: Best way to learn endgame is by using technology
I forgot to mention along with a good endgame chess book to set up different positions, for instance I am using Silman's complete endgame course to first learn the technique and then I use a top engine without EGTB to practice what I have learned. Later I switch side, first playing as White then the Black side of the boardCornfedForever wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:14 amSorry, I have to disagree. These are...just moves.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:03 am For instance, If you are learning opposition simply let a top engine show you
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.02.26"]
[Round "?"]
[White "human"]
[Black "Stockfish_23022419_x64_avx2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3535"]
[Time "21:55:40"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "0+2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/8/3k4/3P4/3K4/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. ... Kd6 {(Kd5-d6 Kd3-c4 Kd6-c6 d4-d5+ Kc6-c7 Kc4-c5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8
Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7) 0.00/55 1} 2. Kc4 {(Kd3-c4 Kd6-c6 d4-d5+ Kc6-d6 Kc4-d4
Kd6-d7 Kd4-d3 Kd7-c7 Kd3-c3 Kc7-d7 Kc3-b4 Kd7-d6 Kb4-c4 Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5
Kd7-c7 Kc5-d4 Kc7-d7) +0.01/78 1} Kc6 {(Kd6-c6 d4-d5+ Kc6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7
d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/57 1} 3. d5+ {(d4-d5+
Kc6-d6 Kc4-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-d3 Kd7-c7 Kd3-c3 Kc7-d7 Kc3-d4 Kd7-d6 Kd4-e4
Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6) +0.01/86 1} Kd7 {(Kc6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7
d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8
Ke6-f5 Ke8-d7) 0.00/53 2} 4. Kc5 {(Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7 Kc5-d4 Kc7-d7 Kd4-e3
Kd7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6 Kd4-c4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/90 1}
Kc7 {(Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-f4
Kd8-d7) 0.00/57 1} 5. Kd4 {(Kc5-d4 Kc7-d7 Kd4-e3 Kd7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-d7
Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6 Kd4-c4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/94 2} Kd6 {(Kc7-d6 Kd4-c4
Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-c5)
0.00/59 2} 6. Kc4 {(Kd4-c4 Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7) +0.01/95 1} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7
Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/52 2} 7. Kc3
{(Kc4-c3 Kd7-d6 Kc3-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-e3 Kd7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-e7 Ke4-e5 Ke7-d7
Ke5-d4 Kd7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kc7 {(Kd7-c7 Kc3-d4 Kc7-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5
Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/56 1} 8. Kd3
{(Kc3-d3 Kc7-d7 Kd3-e4 Kd7-d6 Ke4-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-d3 Kd7-e7 Kd3-e4 Ke7-d6)
+0.01/99 1} Kd8 {(Kc7-d8 Kd3-d4 Kd8-c7 Kd4-e5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/58 1} 9. Ke4 {(Kd3-e4 Kd8-e7 Ke4-e5 Ke7-d7
Ke5-d4 Kd7-d6) +0.01/99 1} Kc7 {(Kd8-c7 Ke4-e5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/54 1} 10. Ke3 {(Ke4-e3 Kc7-d7 Ke3-d4 Kd7-d6)
+0.01/99 0} Kd6 {(Kc7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-b6 Kc8-d7 Kb6-c5) 0.00/58 1} 11. Kd4
{(Ke3-d4 Kd6-c7 Kd4-c5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d8
Kd5-e4 Kd8-d7 Ke4-d5 Kd7-d8) +0.01/99 0} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7 Kd4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+
Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/58 1} 12. Kd3 {(Kd4-d3 Kd7-e7
Kd3-e3 Ke7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kc8 {(Kd7-c8 Kd3-d4 Kc8-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+
Kc7-d7 Kc5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-f6 Ke8-d7 Kf6-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/49 2}
13. Ke4 {(Kd3-e4 Kc8-c7 Ke4-e3 Kc7-d7 Ke3-d4 Kd7-d6) +0.01/98 1} Kd7
{(Kc8-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d4 Kd8-d7 Kd4-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-e6)
0.00/54 1} 14. Ke5 {(Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6) +0.01/98 2} Ke7 {(Kd7-e7
d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d4 Kd8-e8 Kd4-c4 Ke8-d8) 0.00/55 2} 15. Kd4 {(Ke5-d4
Ke7-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/99 1} Kd7 {(Ke7-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8
Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-e5) 0.00/48 2}
16. Kd3 {(Kd4-d3 Kd7-e7 Kd3-e3 Ke7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kc7 {(Kd7-c7 Kd3-e3
Kc7-d8 Ke3-f4 Kd8-d7 Kf4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5
Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5) 0.00/59 1} 17. Kc3 {(Kd3-c3 Kc7-d7 Kc3-d4
Kd7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kd6 {(Kc7-d6 Kc3-b4 Kd6xd5 Kb4-a5 Kd5-c5 Ka5-a6 Kc5-b4
Ka6-b7 Kb4-b3 Kb7-b8 Kb3-a2 Kb8-a7 Ka2-b1 Ka7-b6 Kb1-a2 Kb6-b5 Ka2-b2
Kb5-a4 Kb2-b1 Ka4-a5 Kb1-b2 Ka5-b5 Kb2-c1 Kb5-a6 Kc1-d2 Ka6-b7 Kd2-c2
Kb7-b8 Kc2-b1 Kb8-b7 Kb1-b2 Kb7-c7 Kb2-c2 Kc7-c8 Kc2-c3 Kc8-b8 Kc3-d4
Kb8-c8 Kd4-d5 Kc8-b7 Kd5-e5) 0.00/41 1} 18. Kd4 {(Kc3-d4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/99
0} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7) 0.00/68 1 3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
The BEST way to learn an endgame is the old way...with 'words'. In this case, verbal explanation of the term 'opposition'.
-
kaissa
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:21 pm
Re: Best way to learn endgame is by using technology
This was not a good example to start with as it is a theoretical draw. Had the pawn been on d2 with Black to move, we would have something.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:24 amI forgot to mention along with a good endgame chess book to set up different positions, for instance I am using Silman's complete endgame course to first learn the technique and then I use a top engine without EGTB to practice what I have learned. Later I switch side, first playing as White then the Black side of the boardCornfedForever wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:14 amSorry, I have to disagree. These are...just moves.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:03 am For instance, If you are learning opposition simply let a top engine show you
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.02.26"]
[Round "?"]
[White "human"]
[Black "Stockfish_23022419_x64_avx2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3535"]
[Time "21:55:40"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[TimeControl "0+2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/8/3k4/3P4/3K4/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. ... Kd6 {(Kd5-d6 Kd3-c4 Kd6-c6 d4-d5+ Kc6-c7 Kc4-c5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8
Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7) 0.00/55 1} 2. Kc4 {(Kd3-c4 Kd6-c6 d4-d5+ Kc6-d6 Kc4-d4
Kd6-d7 Kd4-d3 Kd7-c7 Kd3-c3 Kc7-d7 Kc3-b4 Kd7-d6 Kb4-c4 Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5
Kd7-c7 Kc5-d4 Kc7-d7) +0.01/78 1} Kc6 {(Kd6-c6 d4-d5+ Kc6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7
d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/57 1} 3. d5+ {(d4-d5+
Kc6-d6 Kc4-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-d3 Kd7-c7 Kd3-c3 Kc7-d7 Kc3-d4 Kd7-d6 Kd4-e4
Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6) +0.01/86 1} Kd7 {(Kc6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7
d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8
Ke6-f5 Ke8-d7) 0.00/53 2} 4. Kc5 {(Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7 Kc5-d4 Kc7-d7 Kd4-e3
Kd7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6 Kd4-c4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/90 1}
Kc7 {(Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-f4
Kd8-d7) 0.00/57 1} 5. Kd4 {(Kc5-d4 Kc7-d7 Kd4-e3 Kd7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-d7
Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6 Kd4-c4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/94 2} Kd6 {(Kc7-d6 Kd4-c4
Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-c5)
0.00/59 2} 6. Kc4 {(Kd4-c4 Kd6-d7 Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7) +0.01/95 1} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7
Kc4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8 Kc5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/52 2} 7. Kc3
{(Kc4-c3 Kd7-d6 Kc3-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-e3 Kd7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-e7 Ke4-e5 Ke7-d7
Ke5-d4 Kd7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kc7 {(Kd7-c7 Kc3-d4 Kc7-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5
Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/56 1} 8. Kd3
{(Kc3-d3 Kc7-d7 Kd3-e4 Kd7-d6 Ke4-d4 Kd6-d7 Kd4-d3 Kd7-e7 Kd3-e4 Ke7-d6)
+0.01/99 1} Kd8 {(Kc7-d8 Kd3-d4 Kd8-c7 Kd4-e5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/58 1} 9. Ke4 {(Kd3-e4 Kd8-e7 Ke4-e5 Ke7-d7
Ke5-d4 Kd7-d6) +0.01/99 1} Kc7 {(Kd8-c7 Ke4-e5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/54 1} 10. Ke3 {(Ke4-e3 Kc7-d7 Ke3-d4 Kd7-d6)
+0.01/99 0} Kd6 {(Kc7-d6 Ke3-e4 Kd6-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5
Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-b6 Kc8-d7 Kb6-c5) 0.00/58 1} 11. Kd4
{(Ke3-d4 Kd6-c7 Kd4-c5 Kc7-d7 d5-d6 Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d8
Kd5-e4 Kd8-d7 Ke4-d5 Kd7-d8) +0.01/99 0} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7 Kd4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+
Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/58 1} 12. Kd3 {(Kd4-d3 Kd7-e7
Kd3-e3 Ke7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kc8 {(Kd7-c8 Kd3-d4 Kc8-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+
Kc7-d7 Kc5-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-f6 Ke8-d7 Kf6-e5 Kd7-d8) 0.00/49 2}
13. Ke4 {(Kd3-e4 Kc8-c7 Ke4-e3 Kc7-d7 Ke3-d4 Kd7-d6) +0.01/98 1} Kd7
{(Kc8-d7 Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d4 Kd8-d7 Kd4-d5 Kd7-d8 Kd5-e6)
0.00/54 1} 14. Ke5 {(Ke4-e5 Kd7-e7 Ke5-d4 Ke7-d6) +0.01/98 2} Ke7 {(Kd7-e7
d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d4 Kd8-e8 Kd4-c4 Ke8-d8) 0.00/55 2} 15. Kd4 {(Ke5-d4
Ke7-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/99 1} Kd7 {(Ke7-d7 Kd4-c5 Kd7-c7 d5-d6+ Kc7-d8
Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5 Kc8-d7 Kd5-e5 Kd7-d8 Ke5-e6 Kd8-e8 Ke6-e5) 0.00/48 2}
16. Kd3 {(Kd4-d3 Kd7-e7 Kd3-e3 Ke7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kc7 {(Kd7-c7 Kd3-e3
Kc7-d8 Ke3-f4 Kd8-d7 Kf4-e5 Kd7-e7 d5-d6+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d5 Kd8-d7 Kd5-c5
Kd7-d8 Kc5-c6 Kd8-c8 Kc6-d5) 0.00/59 1} 17. Kc3 {(Kd3-c3 Kc7-d7 Kc3-d4
Kd7-d6) +0.01/99 0} Kd6 {(Kc7-d6 Kc3-b4 Kd6xd5 Kb4-a5 Kd5-c5 Ka5-a6 Kc5-b4
Ka6-b7 Kb4-b3 Kb7-b8 Kb3-a2 Kb8-a7 Ka2-b1 Ka7-b6 Kb1-a2 Kb6-b5 Ka2-b2
Kb5-a4 Kb2-b1 Ka4-a5 Kb1-b2 Ka5-b5 Kb2-c1 Kb5-a6 Kc1-d2 Ka6-b7 Kd2-c2
Kb7-b8 Kc2-b1 Kb8-b7 Kb1-b2 Kb7-c7 Kb2-c2 Kc7-c8 Kc2-c3 Kc8-b8 Kc3-d4
Kb8-c8 Kd4-d5 Kc8-b7 Kd5-e5) 0.00/41 1} 18. Kd4 {(Kc3-d4 Kd6-d7) +0.01/99
0} Kd7 {(Kd6-d7) 0.00/68 1 3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
The BEST way to learn an endgame is the old way...with 'words'. In this case, verbal explanation of the term 'opposition'.![]()
I agree with both of you. First I try to learn from the book, go over the examples and tasks on my own. Once I feel like I learned the subject, I set up the position against an engine. Only when I beat it consistently do I know that I learned it for good. Mating with B+N is still a challenge
I agree with you that engines are most useful in learning endgames than any other phase of the game; at least at my level.
Books and engines are complimentary. If I had to choose one, I would pick a book anytime though.
Cheers,
-
Chessqueen
- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: Best way to learn endgame is by using technology
I agree with the pawn on d2 and Black to move, it was more of a challenge, but since I read and understood Silman's Complete endgame technique which start in page 57 it was still easy for me to hold the draw. Now with Black to play let any top engine play the White side and you play the Black side and see if you can draw, this is taken from page 68. Show me that you have the knowledge to draw against a top engine, you have to know the technique from page 68.kaissa wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:30 amThis was not a good example to start with as it is a theoretical draw. Had the pawn been on d2 with Black to move, we would have something.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:24 amI forgot to mention along with a good endgame chess book to set up different positions, for instance I am using Silman's complete endgame course to first learn the technique and then I use a top engine without EGTB to practice what I have learned. Later I switch side, first playing as White then the Black side of the boardCornfedForever wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:14 amSorry, I have to disagree. These are...just moves.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:03 am For instance, If you are learning opposition simply let a top engine show you
[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.02.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon-3.2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "Learning"]
[Time "05:14:44"]
[WhiteElo "3535"]
[TimeControl "0+2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/8/8/3k4/3P4/3K4/8 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "34"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]
1. ... Ke5 2. Kc3 Kd5 3. d4 Ke6 4. Kc4 Kd6 5. d5 Kc7 6. Kd3 Kb6 7. Kc4 Kc7
8. Kc5 Kd7 9. d6 Kd8 10. Kd5 Kd7 11. Ke5 Kd8 12. Kd4 Ke8 13. Ke4 Kd8 14.
Ke5 Kd7 15. Kd5 Kd8 16. Ke5 Kd7 17. Kd5 Kd8 18. Ke5 {3-fold repetition} *[/pgn]
The BEST way to learn an endgame is the old way...with 'words'. In this case, verbal explanation of the term 'opposition'.![]()
I agree with both of you. First I try to learn from the book, go over the examples and tasks on my own. Once I feel like I learned the subject, I set up the position against an engine. Only when I beat it consistently do I know that I learned it for good. Mating with B+N is still a challenge
I agree with you that engines are most useful in learning endgames than any other phase of the game; at least at my level.
Books and engines are complimentary. If I had to choose one, I would pick a book anytime though.
Cheers,
[pgn][Event "Black to play and Draw"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.02.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White " Dragon-3.2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "You"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "05:32:24"]
[WhiteElo "3535"]
[TimeControl "0+5"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/1k4p1/1p6/1K6/6PP/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "0"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]
1. ... *[/pgn]
-
CornfedForever
- Posts: 650
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:08 am
- Full name: Brian D. Smith
Re: Best way to learn endgame is by using technology
Perhaps it's time to point out that you have the position wrong. That is not what is on page 68.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:24 pm
Now with Black to play let any top engine play the White side and you play the Black side and see if you can draw, this is taken from page 68. Show me that you have the knowledge to draw against a top engine, you have to know the technique from page 68.
[pgn][Event "Black to play and Draw"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2023.02.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White " Dragon-3.2-64bit-avx2"]
[Black "You"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[Time "05:32:24"]
[WhiteElo "3535"]
[TimeControl "0+5"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/1k4p1/1p6/1K6/6PP/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "0"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]
1. ... *[/pgn]
Also, page 68 is about 'freezing a majority'.
You really do not even need a 'top engine' (or any other really) for any of this. It is conseptual.
-
Chessqueen
- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: Best way to learn endgame is by using technology
You are correct I had a mouse slip the Black King is suppose to be on c6. It said that in in King and pawn endgames, it's very important to avoid having pawn majority devaluated by allowing a smaller force to Freeze a larger one in its track. Therefore, on page 68 it is White to move and NOT Black to move. Therefore, moving 1.g4?? it is a Big Blunder, where it is better to move 1.h4!CornfedForever wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:53 pmPerhaps it's time to point out that you have the position wrong. That is not what is on page 68.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:24 pm
Now with Black to play let any top engine play the White side and you play the Black side and see if you can draw, this is taken from page 68. Show me that you have the knowledge to draw against a top engine, you have to know the technique from page 68.
[pgn][Event"White to move and draw"]
[Date "2023.02.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White "You"]
[Black "Dragon-3.2-64bit-avx2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "3635"]
[Time "17:24:04"]
[WhiteElo "You"]
[TimeControl "0+5"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/8/2k3p1/1p6/1K6/6PP/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "0"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "program"]
1. h4 Kd5 2. g4 Ke5 3. Kxb5 Kf4 4. h5 gxh5 5. gxh5 Kg5 6. Kb4 Kxh5
{Insufficient material} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
Also, page 68 is about 'freezing a majority'.
You really do not even need a 'top engine' (or any other really) for any of this. It is conceptual.