St Louis Chess Club Scandal...Lichess Chess.com Pull Out!!

[supersharp77]

Sex Assault Allegations Have Been Made Against US Chess & St Louis Chess Club by several Female Chess Players Causing LiChess & Chess.com to sever Relationships with St Louis Chess Club events... Resident GM Mr Alejandro Ramirez has resigned his post....

https://mol.im/a/12415489

https://www.wsj.com/sports/chess-allega ... b-3393030e

From The Wall Street Journal:
"After receiving inquiries from The Journal, the St. Louis Chess Club said it had accepted Ramirez’s resignation. Ramirez, in May, was later banned by U.S. Chess, which said its response to the allegations was “timely and appropriate.” 

[AdminX]

Wow, I come back here and see this ... SMH. Guess it was only a matter of time.

[CornfedForever]

Wow, I come back here and see this ... SMH. Guess it was only a matter of time.

Ironic a bit as chess.com and lichess are 'Virtual Chess' only....I don't see how they would ever have to face this issue and it's easy enough to mute/bad people being naughty as there is an trail on their servers. But they are free to pile on.
SLSC does appear to have some issues from what I have read so, I am NOT at all saying the online sites should not criticize...just saying it's easy.

Oh, headed to an OTB tourney this weekend....intending on asking the organizer/director if they have heard about the USCF awareness 'Training' that's been mandated....for a small fee (of course).

40+ yrs of tournament play, I can't say I've ever seen any harassment of any sort...but of course, the sheer odds are that something has probably happened which I did not see.

[towforce]

Seems to be all about Alejandro Ramirez - link.

One thing that annoys me in cases like this: why is it chess organisations which are investigating the suspect and not the police? How many of the top people in chess were elected to those positions on the basis of their skills in investigating allegations of sexual misconduct?

[matejst]

Our societies fought for years against vigilantism. Today, there is a paralegal world that hurries to condemn even before institutional inquiries have started. If Ramirez is guilty, he will be prosecuted. It has nothing to do with Lichess, Chess.com, and perhaps even nothing with the St Louis Chess Club.

And, as an aside, it seems that it is always the same mostly risible crimes we hurry to condemn.

[CornfedForever]

Our societies fought for years against vigilantism. Today, there is a paralegal world that hurries to condemn even before institutional inquiries have started. If Ramirez is guilty, he will be prosecuted. It has nothing to do with Lichess, Chess.com, and perhaps even nothing with the St Louis Chess Club.

And, as an aside, it seems that it is always the same mostly risible crimes we hurry to condemn.

1. Something has to be reported to police for investigations to start...not sure all or possibly any of these allegations against Ramirez have been.

2. Most such assaults are going to happen where there are no witnesses and no evidence. Therefore, it is risky for an organization (or even an individual!) to accuse a possible offender of anything. What an organization CAN do is see if others report similar actions by the same person. When that happens...and by women who may not even know one another, an organization is right to dismiss the person in question and do so in a way that does not open you to lawsuits by that person. To do otherwise would be wrong and leave you open to allegations that you did not do what you should and thus allowed that person/predator to exist on your payroll. Women obviously cannot feel comfortable going to the police on what is likely to be a 'he said-she said' situation with no real evidence or witnesses. But 'where there is enough smoke, there may be fire' for morally wrong (if nothing else) acts.

3. The complaint chess.com and lichess seems to have is that SLCC knew of an let this continue....perhaps in their mind 'too long'. There is nothing wrong with criticizing that and in showing you mean it by simply suspending the free broadcast of their events on YOUR site because of it. I am sure some of those who play at the SLCC also may play on their sites so it makes sense to not continue to essentially 'support' that organization. One can still watch those on the SLCC You Tube Channel....which is superior anyway as you can easily watch an event later or 'rewind' to catch things you might have missed if watching on, say, chess.com's 'CHESS TV' relay.

4. "same mostly risible crimes we hurry to condemn". Not at all sure what you are getting at...."risible" generally means 'laughable' so I hope that is not the case. The women accosted or worse certainly do not consider what happened to them as 'laughable'. and in the end, it's what they feel about what they are saying happened to them that matters. It's how it is dealt with that is the tricky part.