Good engines for endgame play without tablebases?

[chesskobra]

What are some engines that are good in endgame play without using tablebases? I have seen some pleasant endgame play by Igel 3.5, but don't remember other good engines.

Today I played a game between Pedone 3.0.7 (White) vs Peacemaker 2.30 (Black) at 40 moves in 5 minutes (intel core i5, 4GB RAM). After 79 moves, it was the following position on the board,

[d]8/1p6/5Kp1/5b1p/7P/2k5/8/6q1 w - - 0 80

Peacemaker (3425 on CCRL) took another 123 moves to win it. At some point I thought Pedone would escape with a draw by 50 move rule.

Should engines be tested without tablebases? The ratings seem very deceptive.

(Incidentally, diagrams are looking beautiful on the new forum. Thank you for the great work.)

[Jouni]

This position is mate in 6. No help from tablebases.

[chesskobra]

So how should I test engines for 'basic' endgame play, basic as in the way a strong human, say an FM, would play? I would appreciate suggestions, since I don't have experience running such tests. Are there some test cases I can simply run? Can I run engine matches on an epd collection? I would like to

• limit engine depth so that we will be testing its overall understanding as to "how to play" endings
• have test positions that can be won or drawn by a strong human in about 20 moves without too much calculation, especially positions that are not won by a tactical shot, positions for which we can adjudicate a draw if no engine can win in 20 moves.

[towforce]

(Incidentally, diagrams are looking beautiful on the new forum. Thank you for the great work.)

+1

With regards to the subject, I would guess that there's a test suite for endgame positions.

[Chessqueen]

Most engines rated above 2000 can find this mate immediately without tablebases, even Snowy rated 1990 :roll

FEN: 8/1p6/5Kp1/5b1p/7P/2k5/8/6q1 w - - 0 80

Snowy_0_2_x64:
1 00:00 4 65 -17.75 Kf6-e5
2 00:00 143 2k -18.02 Kf6-e5 Qg1-d4+
3 00:00 124 2k -19.25 Kf6-f7 Qg1-d4 Kf7-e7
4 00:00 1k 24k -19.25 Kf6-f7 Qg1-d4 Kf7-e7 Qd4xh4+
5 00:00 5k 75k -19.34 Kf6-f7 Qg1-g3 Kf7-f6 Kc3-d4 Kf6-e7
6 00:00 37k 607k -19.41 Kf6-f7 Qg1-d4 Kf7-e7 Kc3-d3 Ke7-f7 Qd4xh4
7 00:00 62k 4,159k -19.49 Kf6-f7 Qg1-d4 Kf7-e7 b7-b5 Ke7-f7 b5-b4 Kf7-e7
8 00:00 822k 5,845k -19.79 Kf6-f7 b7-b5 Kf7-e7 b5-b4 Ke7-d6 b4-b3 Kd6-d5 b3-b2
9 00:00 1,099k 4,690k -27.86 Kf6-f7 b7-b5 Kf7-e7 b5-b4 Ke7-d6 b4-b3 Kd6-d5 b3-b2 Kd5-e5
10 00:01 6,686k 6,293k -27.86 Kf6-f7 b7-b5 Kf7-e7 b5-b4 Ke7-d6 b4-b3 Kd6-d5 b3-b2 Kd5-e5 b2-b1Q
11 00:02 13,428k 4,968k -M6 Kf6-f7 Qg1-b6 Kf7-e7 Qb6-e6+ Ke7-f8 Qe6-d7 Kf8-g8 g6-g5 h4xg5 Bf5-g6 Kg8-h8

[Chessqueen]

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-4QNC0GS"]
[Date "2024.03.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Snowy_0_2_x64"]
[Black "Snowy_0_2_x64"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "21:19:08"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/1p6/5Kp1/5b1p/7P/2k5/8/6q1 w - - 0 80"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "12"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

80. Kf7 {(Kf6-f7 Qg1-b6 Kf7-e7 Qb6-e6+ Ke7-f8 Qe6-d7 Kf8-g8 g6-g5 h4xg5
Bf5-g6 Kg8-f8 Qd7-f7+) -M6/13 18} b5 {(b7-b5 Kf7-f6 Kc3-d4 Kf6-f7 Kd4-e5
Kf7-e7 Qg1-a7+ Ke7-e8 Bf5-e6 Ke8-f8 Qa7-f7+) +M6/12 19} 81. Ke7 {(Kf7-e7
Qg1-a7+ Ke7-f6 Kc3-d4 Kf6-g5 Kd4-e5 Kg5-h6 Ke5-e6 Kh6-g5 Qa7-e3+) -M5/11 1}
Qa7+ {(Qg1-a7+ Ke7-f6 Kc3-d4 Kf6-g5 Kd4-e5 Kg5-h6 Ke5-e6 Kh6-g5 Qa7-e3+)
+M5/10 2} 82. Kf6 {(Ke7-f6 Kc3-d4 Kf6-g5 Kd4-e5 Kg5-h6 Ke5-e6 Kh6-g5
Qa7-e3+) -M4/9 0} Kd4 {(Kc3-d4 Kf6-g5 Kd4-e5 Kg5-h6 Ke5-e6 Kh6-g5 Qa7-e3+)
+M4/8 0} 83. Kg5 {(Kf6-g5 Kd4-e5 Kg5-h6 Ke5-e6 Kh6-g5 Qa7-e3+) -M3/7 0} Ke5
{(Kd4-e5 Kg5-h6 Ke5-e6 Kh6-g5 Qa7-e3+) +M3/6 0} 84. Kh6 {(Kg5-h6 Ke5-e6
Kh6-g5 Qa7-e3+) -M2/5 0} b4 {(b5-b4 Kh6-g5 Qa7-e3+) +M2/4 0} 85. Kg5
{(Kh6-g5 Qa7-e3+) -M1/3 0} Qe3# {(Qa7-e3+) +M1/2} 0-1[/pgn]