Find the Cook/Dual in this Jan Timman study

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acase
Posts: 1001
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:14 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA
Full name: Andrew R Case

Find the Cook/Dual in this Jan Timman study

Post by acase »

This would have been a pretty nice endgame study if it weren't for the cook/dual, that being said Jan Timman is an outstanding study composer with several very nice studies.

[pgn][Event "1/4 p. JT75 M. Garcia sec A1 Win"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2023.03.24"]
[Round ""]
[White "Jan Timman"]
[Black ""]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4N3/2pp4/5Bp1/2P5/1pPRP2p/b5pr/P3K1pk/3R3b w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "25"]
[EventDate "2023"]

1. c6 $1 {Foresight} (1. Rg1 $2 Kxg1 2. Rd1+ Kh2 3. Bd4 g1=Q 4. Bxg1+ Kg2 5. Nf6 {/Nc7} Rh2 $11) 1... dxc6 (1... d6 2. Rg1 $1 Kxg1 3. Rd1+ Kh2 4. Bd4 $18) ( 1... g1=Q 2. Rxg1 Kxg1 3. Rd1+ Kg2 4. cxd7 $18) 2. Rg1 $1 Kxg1 3. Rd1+ Kh2 4. Rg1 $1 Kxg1 5. Bd4+ Kh2 6. Bg1+ Kxg1 7. Nf6 b3 8. axb3 $1 (8. Ng4 $2 Bd6 9. axb3 c5 $1 (9... Rh2 $2 10. e5 g5 11. b4 $18) 10. e5 g5 $1 $11) 8... Bd6 9. b4 $1 Bxb4 10. Ng4 Bd6 11. c5 Bxc5 (11... g5 12. Ke1 $1 (12. cxd6 $2 cxd6 13. e5 d5 14. e6 d4 15. e7 d3+ 16. Ke1 d2+ 17. Kxd2 Kf1 18. e8=Q g1=N $1 $11) 12... Bxc5 (12... Bf4 13. e5 Bd2+ 14. Ke2 $18) 13. Ne5 g4 14. Nxg4 Bd4 15. e5 c5 16. e6 c4 17. e7 c3 18. e8=Q $18) 12. Ne5 Bd4 13. Nf3# 1-0
[/pgn]
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Jouni
Posts: 3751
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm
Full name: Jouni Uski

Re: Find the Cook/Dual in this Jan Timman study

Post by Jouni »

Couple of seconds with Huntsman


1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Bc1 3.Rc2 Kh2 4.Kd3 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.d7 b3 7.axb3 Bh6 8.d8Q g5 9.Bxg5 Bg7 10.Nxg7 Kg1 11.Nf5 Kh2 12.Ne3 Kg1 13.Ng4 Kf1 14.Rc1#
+- (#14) Depth: 83/28 00:00:02 15678kN
Jouni
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acase
Posts: 1001
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:14 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA
Full name: Andrew R Case

Re: Find the Cook/Dual in this Jan Timman study

Post by acase »

Jouni wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:04 pm Couple of seconds with Huntsman


1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Bc1 3.Rc2 Kh2 4.Kd3 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.d7 b3 7.axb3 Bh6 8.d8Q g5 9.Bxg5 Bg7 10.Nxg7 Kg1 11.Nf5 Kh2 12.Ne3 Kg1 13.Ng4 Kf1 14.Rc1#
+- (#14) Depth: 83/28 00:00:02 15678kN
That's correct.
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peter
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Find the Cook/Dual in this Jan Timman study

Post by peter »

https://arves.org/arves/index.php/en/aw ... 75-jt-2023

Gustav 4.2e:

Code: Select all

Matt in 14 Zügen, Weiß beginnt, ,   

Lösung gefunden bei folgenden Parametern: 
Fluchtfelder: 2
alle Lösungen suchen / keine Duale in Kurzvarianten anzeigen / Lösungstiefe: 10
Zugzahl unbekannt / Hashtabelle: 8192 MB

Lösezeit:  :           32 : 38,27 min      Zaehler: 863.668880

1.Td1-g1 Kh2-g1 2.Td4-d2 Kg1-h2 3.Ke2-d3 La3-c1 4.Td2-c2 Bb4-b3 5.Ba2-b3 Bd7-d5 6.Be4-d5 Lc1-f4 7.Lf6-d4 Lf4-g5 8.Se8-c7 Lg5-c1 9.Bd5-d6 Lc1-b2 10.Tc2-b2 Bg6-g5 (4)
After author's solution, there are some longer lines then shortest given one. Anyhow it's not a mate in x- puzzle, so best thematic variation may be chosen. 1.Rg1 (wrongly commented with ?) as given at Arves has wrong cont, at 2.Rd1+?, Rd2 there instead, as Jouni's Huntsman- output already shows, is shortest DTM too and so yet could be called major dual, regards
Peter.
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Ajedrecista
Posts: 2163
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain.

Re: Find the cook/dual in this Jan Timman's study.

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello:
Jouni wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:04 pm Couple of seconds with Huntsman


1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Bc1 3.Rc2 Kh2 4.Kd3 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.d7 b3 7.axb3 Bh6 8.d8Q g5 9.Bxg5 Bg7 10.Nxg7 Kg1 11.Nf5 Kh2 12.Ne3 Kg1 13.Ng4 Kf1 14.Rc1#
+- (#14) Depth: 83/28 00:00:02 15678kN
I had not tried Huntsman until now despite having seen great results from other many times. What a joy! However, my run was much slower than yours... hardware difference must be huge:

Code: Select all

FEN: 4N3/2pp4/5Bp1/2P5/1pPRP2p/b5pr/P3K1pk/3R3b w - - 0 1

Huntsman:
Found 145 tablebases
classical evaluation enabled
[...]
 76/30	02:45	 414.865.976	2.502.418	+M15	Rd1g1 Kh2xg1 Rd4d2 Ba3c1 Rd2c2 Kg1h2 Ke2d3 d7d5 c4xd5 Bc1f4 Bf6d4 Bf4g5 c5c6 Bg5d8 d5d6 c7xd6 c6c7 b4b3 c7c8Q b3xc2 Qc8xc2 d6d5 Qc2c1 d5xe4+ Kd3c2 e4e3 Qc1xe3 g2g1Q Qe3xg1+
 77/30	03:28	 529.250.835	2.539.372	+M14	Rd1g1 Kh2xg1 Rd4d2 Ba3c1 Rd2c2 Kg1h2 Ke2d3 d7d5 e4xd5 Bc1f4 Bf6d4 Bf4g5 Ne8xc7 b4b3 a2xb3 Bg5f6 Bd4xf6 g6g5 d5d6 Kh2g1 Nc7d5 Kg1h2 Nd5e3 Kh2g1 Ne3g4 Kg1f1 Rc2c1+
 78/28	03:57	 606.432.446	2.559.132	+M14	Rd1g1 Kh2xg1 Rd4d2 Ba3c1 Rd2c2 Kg1h2 Ke2d3 d7d5 e4xd5 Bc1f4 Bf6d4 Bf4g5 Ne8xc7 b4b3 a2xb3 Bg5f6 Bd4xf6 g6g5 d5d6 Kh2g1 Nc7d5 Kg1h2 Nd5e3 Kh2g1 Ne3g4 Kg1f1 Rc2c1+
 79/28	04:35	 701.010.094	2.542.102	+M14	Rd1g1 Kh2xg1 Rd4d2 Ba3c1 Rd2c2 Kg1h2 Ke2d3 b4b3 a2xb3 d7d5 c5xd6/ep c7c5 Bf6d4 Bc1g5 Bd4xc5 Bg5d8 Bc5b6 Bd8g5 Rc2b2 Bg5d8 Bb6xd8 Kh2g1 Bd8b6+ Kg1h2 Ne8f6 g6g5 Nf6g4+
 80/28	04:50	 735.859.272	2.531.858	+M14	Rd1g1 Kh2xg1 Rd4d2 Ba3c1 Rd2c2 Kg1h2 Ke2d3 d7d5 e4xd5 Bc1f4 Bf6d4 Bf4g5 Ne8xc7 b4b3 a2xb3 Bg5f6 Bd4xf6 g6g5 d5d6 Kh2g1 Nc7d5 Kg1h2 Nd5e3 Kh2g1 Ne3g4 Kg1f1 Rc2c1+
 81/28	05:08	 776.946.666	2.518.726	+M14	Rd1g1 Kh2xg1 Rd4d2 Ba3c1 Rd2c2 Kg1h2 Ke2d3 d7d5 e4xd5 Bc1f4 Bf6d4 Bf4g5 Ne8xc7 b4b3 a2xb3 Bg5f6 Bd4xf6 g6g5 d5d6 Kh2g1 Nc7d5 Kg1h2 Nd5e3 Kh2g1 Ne3g4 Kg1f1 Rc2c1+
 82/28	05:30	 828.418.215	2.508.571	+M14	Rd1g1 Kh2xg1 Rd4d2 Ba3c1 Rd2c2 Kg1h2 Ke2d3 d7d5 e4xd5 Bc1f4 Bf6d4 Bf4g5 Ne8xc7 b4b3 a2xb3 Bg5f6 Bd4xf6 g6g5 d5d6 Kh2g1 Nc7d5 Kg1h2 Nd5e3 Kh2g1 Ne3g4 Kg1f1 Rc2c1+
Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
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Paloma
Posts: 1214
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:07 pm
Full name: Herbert L

Re: Find the Cook/Dual in this Jan Timman study

Post by Paloma »

Differnt hashtables ?
Maybe Jouni has much more hashtables.
E.g. 16384 vs 1024 or so
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Paloma
Posts: 1214
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:07 pm
Full name: Herbert L

Re: Find the Cook/Dual in this Jan Timman study

Post by Paloma »

Nope!
Jouni probably did not delete the hashtables from a previous run. (depth 83 in 2sec.)

1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Kh2 3.Kd3 Bc1 4.Rc2 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.Bd4 Bg5 7.Bxc5 Bd8 8.d7 Bg5 9.Nd6 Be3 10.Kxe3 b3 11.axb3 Kg1 12.Kd3+ Kh2 13.Ne8 g5 14.Nf6 g4 15.Nxg4#
+- (#15) Tiefe: 63/30 00:00:06 28281kN, tb=13
1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Kh2 3.Kd3 Bc1 4.Rc2 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.Bd4 Bg5 7.Bxc5 Bd8 8.Bb6 Bg5 9.Rb2 b3 10.axb3 Bd8 11.Bxd8 Kg1 12.Bb6+ Kh2 13.Nf6 g5 14.Ng4#
+- (#14) Tiefe: 64/28 00:00:07 32599kN, tb=26
....
1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Kh2 3.Kd3 Bc1 4.Rc2 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.Bd4 Bg5 7.Bxc5 Bd8 8.Bb6 Bg5 9.Rb2 b3 10.axb3 Bd8 11.Bxd8 Kg1 12.Bb6+ Kh2 13.Nf6 g5 14.Ng4#
+- (#14) Tiefe: 77/28 00:00:43 163MN, tb=11181
1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Kh2 3.Kd3 Bc1 4.Rc2 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.Bd4 Bg5 7.Bxc5 Bd8 8.Bb6 Bg5 9.Rb2 b3 10.axb3 Bd8 11.Bxd8 Kg1 12.Bb6+ Kh2 13.Nf6 g5 14.Ng4#
+- (#14) Tiefe: 78/28 00:00:51 191MN, tb=17147

16384 MB Hash on 3.4 MHz
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acase
Posts: 1001
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:14 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA
Full name: Andrew R Case

Re: Find the Cook/Dual in this Jan Timman study

Post by acase »

Paloma wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:55 pm Nope!
Jouni probably did not delete the hashtables from a previous run. (depth 83 in 2sec.)

1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Kh2 3.Kd3 Bc1 4.Rc2 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.Bd4 Bg5 7.Bxc5 Bd8 8.d7 Bg5 9.Nd6 Be3 10.Kxe3 b3 11.axb3 Kg1 12.Kd3+ Kh2 13.Ne8 g5 14.Nf6 g4 15.Nxg4#
+- (#15) Tiefe: 63/30 00:00:06 28281kN, tb=13
1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Kh2 3.Kd3 Bc1 4.Rc2 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.Bd4 Bg5 7.Bxc5 Bd8 8.Bb6 Bg5 9.Rb2 b3 10.axb3 Bd8 11.Bxd8 Kg1 12.Bb6+ Kh2 13.Nf6 g5 14.Ng4#
+- (#14) Tiefe: 64/28 00:00:07 32599kN, tb=26
....
1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Kh2 3.Kd3 Bc1 4.Rc2 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.Bd4 Bg5 7.Bxc5 Bd8 8.Bb6 Bg5 9.Rb2 b3 10.axb3 Bd8 11.Bxd8 Kg1 12.Bb6+ Kh2 13.Nf6 g5 14.Ng4#
+- (#14) Tiefe: 77/28 00:00:43 163MN, tb=11181
1.Rg1 Kxg1 2.Rd2 Kh2 3.Kd3 Bc1 4.Rc2 d5 5.cxd6 c5 6.Bd4 Bg5 7.Bxc5 Bd8 8.Bb6 Bg5 9.Rb2 b3 10.axb3 Bd8 11.Bxd8 Kg1 12.Bb6+ Kh2 13.Nf6 g5 14.Ng4#
+- (#14) Tiefe: 78/28 00:00:51 191MN, tb=17147

16384 MB Hash on 3.4 MHz
Hi Herbert, I got similar results to yours using The Huntsman 1:

FEN: 4N3/2pp4/5Bp1/2P5/1pPRP2p/b5pr/P3K1pk/3R3b w - - 0 1

The Huntsman 1 bmi2:

79/30 00:10 400,890k 39,657k +M15 1.Rd1-g1 Kh2xg1 2.Rd4-d2 Ba3-c1 3.Rd2-c2 Kg1-h2 4.Ke2-d3 d7-d5 5.c4xd5 Bc1-f4 6.Bf6-d4 Bf4-g5 7.e4-e5 c7-c6 8.Ne8-f6 Bg5xf6 9.e5xf6 b4-b3 10.a2xb3 g6-g5 11.f6-f7 g5-g4 12.f7-f8Q c6xd5 13.Rc2-c1 g2-g1Q 14.Bd4xg1+ Kh2-g2 15.Qf8-f1+
80/30 00:10 425,613k 39,618k +M15 1.Rd1-g1 Kh2xg1 2.Rd4-d2 Ba3-c1 3.Rd2-c2 Kg1-h2 4.Ke2-d3 d7-d5 5.c4xd5 Bc1-f4 6.Bf6-d4 Bf4-g5 7.e4-e5 c7-c6 8.Ne8-f6 Bg5xf6 9.e5xf6 b4-b3 10.a2xb3 g6-g5 11.f6-f7 g5-g4 12.f7-f8Q c6xd5 13.Rc2-c1 g2-g1Q 14.Bd4xg1+ Kh2-g2 15.Qf8-f1+
81/30 00:16 650,030k 39,823k +M14 1.Rd1-g1 Kh2xg1 2.Rd4-d2 Ba3-c1 3.Rd2-c2 Kg1-h2 4.Ke2-d3 d7-d5 5.c5xd6/ep c7-c5 6.d6-d7 Bc1-h6 7.d7-d8Q b4-b3 8.a2xb3 g6-g5 9.Bf6-d4 Bh6-g7 10.Bd4xg7 Kh2-g1 11.Qd8xg5 Kg1-h2 12.Ne8-f6 Kh2-g1 13.Qg5xc5+ Kg1-h2 14.Nf6-g4+
82/28 00:17 679,372k 39,797k +M14 1.Rd1-g1 Kh2xg1 2.Rd4-d2 Ba3-c1 3.Rd2-c2 Kg1-h2 4.Ke2-d3 d7-d5 5.c5xd6/ep c7-c5 6.d6-d7 Bc1-h6 7.d7-d8Q b4-b3 8.a2xb3 g6-g5 9.Bf6-d4 Bh6-g7 10.Bd4xg7 Kh2-g1 11.Qd8xg5 Kg1-h2 12.Ne8-f6 Kh2-g1 13.Qg5xc5+ Kg1-h2 14.Nf6-g4+
83/28 00:17 686,503k 39,788k +M14 1.Rd1-g1 Kh2xg1 2.Rd4-d2 Ba3-c1 3.Rd2-c2 Kg1-h2 4.Ke2-d3 d7-d5 5.c5xd6/ep c7-c5 6.d6-d7 Bc1-h6 7.d7-d8Q b4-b3 8.a2xb3 g6-g5 9.Bf6-d4 Bh6-g7 10.Bd4xg7 Kh2-g1 11.Qd8xg5 Kg1-h2 12.Ne8-f6 Kh2-g1 13.Qg5xc5+ Kg1-h2 14.Nf6-g4+


But the engine that I really used that solved this was ShashChess 33.1 (High Petrosian):

FEN: 4N3/2pp4/5Bp1/2P5/1pPRP2p/b5pr/P3K1pk/3R3b w - - 0 1

ShashChess33.1-x86-64-bmi2:

34/30 00:01 63,213k 32,268k +3.99 1.Rd1-g1 Kh2xg1 2.Rd4-d2 Ba3-c1 3.Bf6-d4+ Kg1-h2 4.Rd2-d1 g2-g1B 5.Bd4xg1+ Kh2-g2 6.Rd1xc1 c7-c6 7.Ke2-e3 Rh3-h2 8.Ne8-f6 Kg2-h3 9.Bg1xh2 g3xh2 10.Rc1xh1 Kh3-g3 11.Nf6xd7 h4-h3 12.e4-e5
35/42+ 00:03 114,670k 35,164k +5.21 1.Rd1-g1
35/50+ 00:05 187,866k 35,628k +5.92 1.Rd1-g1
35/59+ 00:07 272,768k 34,199k +6.88 1.Rd1-g1
35/59 00:07 272,878k 34,195k +M14 1.Rd1-g1 Kh2xg1 2.Rd4-d2 Ba3-c1 3.Rd2-c2 Kg1-h2 4.Ke2-f3 d7-d5 5.Bf6-d4 Bc1-g5 6.Ne8xc7 d5xe4+ 7.Kf3xe4 Bg5-f6 8.Bd4xf6 b4-b3 9.a2xb3 g6-g5 10.Bf6xg5 Kh2-g1 11.Nc7-b5 Kg1-h2 12.Nb5-d4 Kh2-g1 13.Bg5-e3+ Kg1-h2 14.Nd4-f3+
36/28 00:07 272,970k 34,194k +M14 1.Rd1-g1 Kh2xg1 2.Rd4-d2 Ba3-c1 3.Rd2-c2 Kg1-h2 4.Ke2-f3 d7-d5 5.Bf6-d4 Bc1-g5 6.Ne8xc7 d5xe4+ 7.Kf3xe4 Bg5-f6 8.Bd4xf6 b4-b3 9.a2xb3 g6-g5 10.Bf6xg5 Kh2-g1 11.Nc7-b5 Kg1-h2 12.Nb5-d4 Kh2-g1 13.Bg5-e3+ Kg1-h2 14.Nd4-f3+
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