Search the gambit

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rainhaus
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Full name: Rainer Neuhäusler

Search the gambit

Post by rainhaus »

The so-called Wagner Gambit (Heinrich Wagner), A46 Torre Attack, belongs to the GGT test suite (not to be confused with the Wagner Gambit in the Bird opening from ? Wagner).

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bg5 c5 (Torre attack) 4. e4 (Wagner Gambit)

[d] rnbqkb1r/pp1p1ppp/4pn2/2p3B1/3PP3/5N2/PPP2PPP/RN1QKB1R b KQkq e3 0 4

However, do you see a gambit? Who is the gambit player? Where is the lost pawn, the lost piece? That's not even a pseudo-gambit like Queens gambit, that's nothing but a simple variation, IMHO. Why the historians, the theorists, the experts are tolerating such a false labeling? Or am I a f..... blind man...

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metax
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Re: Search the gambit

Post by metax »

Well... it _is_ a pseudo gambit because the Pe4 is 'hanging': 4...Nxe4?? 5.Bxd8 :D
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Rubinus
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Re: Search the gambit

Post by Rubinus »

And after 4.-Qb6?
rainhaus
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Re: Search the gambit

Post by rainhaus »

metax wrote:Well... it _is_ a pseudo gambit because the Pe4 is 'hanging': 4...Nxe4?? 5.Bxd8 :D
Bravo, there are already two people who don't regard this opening as a gambit :).
But in the event you are not only ironical:
Well, I think a zombie move like 5.-- Nxe4 don't even justify the title pseudo- gambit. If this were the case, I would be able to invent a lot of new gambits ;)
No, a pseudo-gambit is IMO an opening like the accepted Queens gambit, just I've said. You give a pawn, but you can get it back within a few moves, if you want. Moreover, it is even dangerous to hold it. With a pseudo-gambit you have no real sacrifice.
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rainhaus
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:26 pm
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Full name: Rainer Neuhäusler

Re: Search the gambit

Post by rainhaus »

Rubinus wrote:And after 4.-Qb6?
The hanging b2-pawn doesn't transform this opening into a proper gambit. No, the gambit train has already departed by 4.e4. Why ? Look at the classical gambits. What is a central characteristic gambit feature you are missing in the Wagner opening?
BTW, with 4. -- Qb6 5. Nc3 the b2 becomes rather poisened, isn't it?
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Guenther
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Re: Search the gambit

Post by Guenther »

Rainer Marian wrote:
Rubinus wrote:And after 4.-Qb6?
The hanging b2-pawn doesn't transform this opening into a proper gambit. No, the gambit train has already departed by 4.e4. Why ? Look at the classical gambits. What is a central characteristic gambit feature you are missing in the Wagner opening?
BTW, with 4. -- Qb6 5. Nc3 the b2 becomes rather poisened, isn't it?
r n
Poisened yes but now it's at least a real gambit ;-)

Guenther
rainhaus
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Re: Search the gambit

Post by rainhaus »

Guenther wrote:
Rainer Marian wrote:
Rubinus wrote:And after 4.-Qb6?
The hanging b2-pawn doesn't transform this opening into a proper gambit. No, the gambit train has already departed by 4.e4. Why ? Look at the classical gambits. What is a central characteristic gambit feature you are missing in the Wagner opening?
BTW, with 4. -- Qb6 5. Nc3 the b2 becomes rather poisened, isn't it?
r n
Poisened yes but now it's at least a real gambit ;-)

Guenther
Yes, I'll call this variation Wagnerkiri Gambit.:) No, a serious gambit should offer approximately the same chances to both sides.
Rainer
p.s. Maybe, I write after a long time once again a limerick: There once was a gambit called Wagner....:)