Search the gambit

[rainhaus]

The so-called Wagner Gambit (Heinrich Wagner), A46 Torre Attack, belongs to the GGT test suite (not to be confused with the Wagner Gambit in the Bird opening from ? Wagner).

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bg5 c5 (Torre attack) 4. e4 (Wagner Gambit)

[d] rnbqkb1r/pp1p1ppp/4pn2/2p3B1/3PP3/5N2/PPP2PPP/RN1QKB1R b KQkq e3 0 4

However, do you see a gambit? Who is the gambit player? Where is the lost pawn, the lost piece? That's not even a pseudo-gambit like Queens gambit, that's nothing but a simple variation, IMHO. Why the historians, the theorists, the experts are tolerating such a false labeling? Or am I a f..... blind man...

r n

[metax]

Well... it _is_ a pseudo gambit because the Pe4 is 'hanging': 4...Nxe4?? 5.Bxd8

[Rubinus]

And after 4.-Qb6?

[rainhaus]

Well... it _is_ a pseudo gambit because the Pe4 is 'hanging': 4...Nxe4?? 5.Bxd8

Bravo, there are already two people who don't regard this opening as a gambit .
But in the event you are not only ironical:
Well, I think a zombie move like 5.-- Nxe4 don't even justify the title pseudo- gambit. If this were the case, I would be able to invent a lot of new gambits
No, a pseudo-gambit is IMO an opening like the accepted Queens gambit, just I've said. You give a pawn, but you can get it back within a few moves, if you want. Moreover, it is even dangerous to hold it. With a pseudo-gambit you have no real sacrifice.
r n

[rainhaus]

And after 4.-Qb6?

The hanging b2-pawn doesn't transform this opening into a proper gambit. No, the gambit train has already departed by 4.e4. Why ? Look at the classical gambits. What is a central characteristic gambit feature you are missing in the Wagner opening?
BTW, with 4. -- Qb6 5. Nc3 the b2 becomes rather poisened, isn't it?
r n

[Guenther]

And after 4.-Qb6?

The hanging b2-pawn doesn't transform this opening into a proper gambit. No, the gambit train has already departed by 4.e4. Why ? Look at the classical gambits. What is a central characteristic gambit feature you are missing in the Wagner opening?
BTW, with 4. -- Qb6 5. Nc3 the b2 becomes rather poisened, isn't it?
r n

Poisened yes but now it's at least a real gambit ;-)

Guenther

[rainhaus]

And after 4.-Qb6?

The hanging b2-pawn doesn't transform this opening into a proper gambit. No, the gambit train has already departed by 4.e4. Why ? Look at the classical gambits. What is a central characteristic gambit feature you are missing in the Wagner opening?
BTW, with 4. -- Qb6 5. Nc3 the b2 becomes rather poisened, isn't it?
r n

Poisened yes but now it's at least a real gambit

Guenther

Yes, I'll call this variation Wagnerkiri Gambit. No, a serious gambit should offer approximately the same chances to both sides.
Rainer
p.s. Maybe, I write after a long time once again a limerick: There once was a gambit called Wagner....