ozziejoe wrote:The author saying it is based on fruit does not in fact make it "fact"
Didn't people already compare fruit and strelka and say that strelka was not a fruit clone. These were top experts in the field. Plus, I think uri has looked at fruit code and he has had access to the strelka code, well before alot of people and is using it to inform the developmennt of his engine. I assume he would be able to say whether or not it is fruit.
Anthony C and others whom I assume are familiar with fruit code have been looking at the strelka code (see rybka forum) and marvelling at some of rybykas/strelks insights and simplicities. why would anybody "marvell" if it was somehtng they had already been familiar with for years.
This is so simple. Unbiased Programing experts can compare the code and say whether it is a clone of fruit (and this, as i recall, has been done)
best
J
I remember history with Fafis, were was 30% code from Crafty. Verdict was - clone. I think Strelka have 30% code from fruit, so what? Not clone
I should note that your are just making a cliam here, and then repeating it. this does not constitute evidence. Indeed, some of the things that have been said about vas and rybka in this thread border on slander. The claims seem to be unsupported by evidence but mostly meant to hurt him and his business.
It does not matter how many people sarcastly repeat fruit = rybka. It does not matter how many different ways you find to say fruit = rybka. This is not evidence.
Vas has been devoted to chess (as an international master) and programming for quite some time, and deserves some benefit of the doubt, until their is evidence. I can say from a chess playing perspective that rybka does not play much like fruit and right from the begining killed fruit 2.2. (much better than the version vas was said to be stealing from). Rybka right from the beginning played like no program i'd ever seen. that is the only evidence i have. It is not iron clad, but it is something. Strelka, in contrast, played just like rybka, even down to the odd errors.
In my view, the current evidence points to strelka being a clone of rybka, and to rybka being something distinctive and new. This is not total proof, but it does fall into the category of evidence i think. It is the best we have.
best
Joseph
Last edited by ozziejoe on Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think saying strelka has 30% in common with fruit is is in the category of potential evidence, i agree.
Just a few questions
1) are you sure about this number
2) does it matter what 30% is taken (i..e, is not more code more critical than others)
3) Are you sure this 30% is not something added by the strelka author, who could have malicious intent towards vas
Last edited by ozziejoe on Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ozziejoe wrote:I should note that your are just making a cliam here, and then repeating it. this does not constitute evidence. Indeed, some of the things that have been said about vas and rybka in this thread border on slander. The claims seem to be unsupported by evidence but mostly meant to hurt him and his business.
It does not matter how many people sarcastly repeat fruit = rybka. This is not evidence.
Vas has been devoted to chess (as an international master) and programming for quite some time, and deserves some benefit of the doubt, until their is evidence. I can say from a chess playing perspective that rybka does not play much like fruit and right from the begining killed fruit 2.2. (much better than the version vas was said to be stealing from). Rybka right from the beginning played like no program i'd ever seen. that is the only evidence i have. It is not iron clad, but it is something. Strelka, in contrast, played just like rybka, even down to the odd errors.
In my view, the current evidence points to strelka being a clone of rybka, and to rybka being something distinctive and new. This is not total proof, but it does fall into the category of evidence i think. It is the best we have.
best
Joseph
I not against Rybka, but I also not against Strelka. And if you speak that Strelka a clone I approve, that it precisely same clone as well as Rybka. They simply have one parent.
ozziejoe wrote:The author saying it is based on fruit does not in fact make it "fact"
Didn't people already compare fruit and strelka and say that strelka was not a fruit clone. These were top experts in the field. Plus, I think uri has looked at fruit code and he has had access to the strelka code, well before alot of people and is using it to inform the developmennt of his engine. I assume he would be able to say whether or not it is fruit.
Anthony C and others whom I assume are familiar with fruit code have been looking at the strelka code (see rybka forum) and marvelling at some of rybykas/strelks insights and simplicities. why would anybody "marvell" if it was somehtng they had already been familiar with for years.
This is so simple. Unbiased Programing experts can compare the code and say whether it is a clone of fruit (and this, as i recall, has been done)
best
J
I remember history with Fafis, were was 30% code from Crafty. Verdict was - clone. I think Strelka have 30% code from fruit, so what? Not clone
I think strelka has not 30% of fruit.
If my memory is correct the claim was about old DanChess and not about Fafis.
I remember that Fafis was discovered to be a clone but I do not remember people seeing the source of it.
ozziejoe wrote:I should note that your are just making a cliam here, and then repeating it. this does not constitute evidence. Indeed, some of the things that have been said about vas and rybka in this thread border on slander. The claims seem to be unsupported by evidence but mostly meant to hurt him and his business.
It does not matter how many people sarcastly repeat fruit = rybka. This is not evidence.
Vas has been devoted to chess (as an international master) and programming for quite some time, and deserves some benefit of the doubt, until their is evidence. I can say from a chess playing perspective that rybka does not play much like fruit and right from the begining killed fruit 2.2. (much better than the version vas was said to be stealing from). Rybka right from the beginning played like no program i'd ever seen. that is the only evidence i have. It is not iron clad, but it is something. Strelka, in contrast, played just like rybka, even down to the odd errors.
In my view, the current evidence points to strelka being a clone of rybka, and to rybka being something distinctive and new. This is not total proof, but it does fall into the category of evidence i think. It is the best we have.
best
Joseph
I not against Rybka, but I also not against Strelka. And if you speak that Strelka a clone I approve, that it precisely same clone as well as Rybka. They simply have one parent.
No this is untrue. Because otherwise O didnt hide like a crook! That alone is the proof for the evil he has done and he has some support now.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz
ozziejoe wrote:The author saying it is based on fruit does not in fact make it "fact"
Didn't people already compare fruit and strelka and say that strelka was not a fruit clone. These were top experts in the field. Plus, I think uri has looked at fruit code and he has had access to the strelka code, well before alot of people and is using it to inform the developmennt of his engine. I assume he would be able to say whether or not it is fruit.
Anthony C and others whom I assume are familiar with fruit code have been looking at the strelka code (see rybka forum) and marvelling at some of rybykas/strelks insights and simplicities. why would anybody "marvell" if it was somehtng they had already been familiar with for years.
This is so simple. Unbiased Programing experts can compare the code and say whether it is a clone of fruit (and this, as i recall, has been done)
best
J
I remember history with Fafis, were was 30% code from Crafty. Verdict was - clone. I think Strelka have 30% code from fruit, so what? Not clone
I think strelka has not 30% of fruit.
If my memory is correct the claim was about old DanChess and not about Fafis.
I remember that Fafis was discovered to be a clone but I do not remember people seeing the source of it.
Uri
Fafis source was inspected, ask owner WBEC. Verdict was clone(30% code from crafty)
ozziejoe wrote:I should note that your are just making a cliam here, and then repeating it. this does not constitute evidence. Indeed, some of the things that have been said about vas and rybka in this thread border on slander. The claims seem to be unsupported by evidence but mostly meant to hurt him and his business.
It does not matter how many people sarcastly repeat fruit = rybka. This is not evidence.
Vas has been devoted to chess (as an international master) and programming for quite some time, and deserves some benefit of the doubt, until their is evidence. I can say from a chess playing perspective that rybka does not play much like fruit and right from the begining killed fruit 2.2. (much better than the version vas was said to be stealing from). Rybka right from the beginning played like no program i'd ever seen. that is the only evidence i have. It is not iron clad, but it is something. Strelka, in contrast, played just like rybka, even down to the odd errors.
In my view, the current evidence points to strelka being a clone of rybka, and to rybka being something distinctive and new. This is not total proof, but it does fall into the category of evidence i think. It is the best we have.
best
Joseph
I not against Rybka, but I also not against Strelka. And if you speak that Strelka a clone I approve, that it precisely same clone as well as Rybka. They simply have one parent.
No this is untrue. Because otherwise O didnt hide like a crook! That alone is the proof for the evil he has done and he has some support now.
For development computer chess Osipov has made much more than Vas, and it is absolutely free-of-charge.
ozziejoe wrote:The author saying it is based on fruit does not in fact make it "fact"
Didn't people already compare fruit and strelka and say that strelka was not a fruit clone. These were top experts in the field. Plus, I think uri has looked at fruit code and he has had access to the strelka code, well before alot of people and is using it to inform the developmennt of his engine. I assume he would be able to say whether or not it is fruit.
Anthony C and others whom I assume are familiar with fruit code have been looking at the strelka code (see rybka forum) and marvelling at some of rybykas/strelks insights and simplicities. why would anybody "marvell" if it was somehtng they had already been familiar with for years.
This is so simple. Unbiased Programing experts can compare the code and say whether it is a clone of fruit (and this, as i recall, has been done)
best
J
I remember history with Fafis, were was 30% code from Crafty. Verdict was - clone. I think Strelka have 30% code from fruit, so what? Not clone
I think strelka has not 30% of fruit.
If my memory is correct the claim was about old DanChess and not about Fafis.
I remember that Fafis was discovered to be a clone but I do not remember people seeing the source of it.
Uri
Strelka have more than 30% fruit's code, some parts are very slightly changed.
ozziejoe wrote:I should note that your are just making a cliam here, and then repeating it. this does not constitute evidence. Indeed, some of the things that have been said about vas and rybka in this thread border on slander. The claims seem to be unsupported by evidence but mostly meant to hurt him and his business.
It does not matter how many people sarcastly repeat fruit = rybka. This is not evidence.
Vas has been devoted to chess (as an international master) and programming for quite some time, and deserves some benefit of the doubt, until their is evidence. I can say from a chess playing perspective that rybka does not play much like fruit and right from the begining killed fruit 2.2. (much better than the version vas was said to be stealing from). Rybka right from the beginning played like no program i'd ever seen. that is the only evidence i have. It is not iron clad, but it is something. Strelka, in contrast, played just like rybka, even down to the odd errors.
In my view, the current evidence points to strelka being a clone of rybka, and to rybka being something distinctive and new. This is not total proof, but it does fall into the category of evidence i think. It is the best we have.
best
Joseph
I not against Rybka, but I also not against Strelka. And if you speak that Strelka a clone I approve, that it precisely same clone as well as Rybka. They simply have one parent.
No this is untrue. Because otherwise O didnt hide like a crook! That alone is the proof for the evil he has done and he has some support now.
For development computer chess Osipov has made much more than Vas, and it is absolutely free-of-charge.
It is hard to compare because Osipov could not do what he did without Vas.
