Discussion of chess software programming and technical issues.
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								amanjpro  
									
		Posts:  883Joined:  Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:47 amFull name:  Amanj Sherwany 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by amanjpro  Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:22 am 
			
			
			
			
			
			klx  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:46 am amanjpro  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:54 am 
@Klx, I tried running your engine, it segfaulted 
 said no emaNNUEl for you
I have never given any thought to evaluation functions nor read up on what NNUE is (apart from somehow related to evaluation), but if I were I most certainly would come up with something better. That's how it usually works. And EmaNNUEl is a great name for that.
But the binary keeps segfaulting 
 what should I do?
 
		 
				
		
		 
	 
				
		
		
			
				
																			
								OfekShochat  
									
		Posts:  50Joined:  Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:19 amFull name:  Ofek Shochat 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by OfekShochat  Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:39 am 
			
			
			
			
			
			amanjpro  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:22 am klx  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:46 am amanjpro  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:54 am 
@Klx, I tried running your engine, it segfaulted 
 said no emaNNUEl for you
I have never given any thought to evaluation functions nor read up on what NNUE is (apart from somehow related to evaluation), but if I were I most certainly would come up with something better. That's how it usually works. And EmaNNUEl is a great name for that.
But the binary keeps segfaulting 
 what should I do?
Wdym? I already tested it out of error bounds
 
		 
				
		
		 
	 
				
		
		
			
				
																			
								OfekShochat  
									
		Posts:  50Joined:  Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:19 amFull name:  Ofek Shochat 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by OfekShochat  Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:44 am 
			
			
			
			
			
			You are a mastermind business man Emanuel...
			
			
									
						
										
						 
		 
				
		
		 
	 
				
		
		
			
				
																			
								marsell  
									
		Posts:  107Joined:  Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:14 am 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by marsell  Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:54 am 
			
			
			
			
			
			Where can I find this engine? Did I miss something? But I can't find an executable to test it.
			
			
									
						
										
						 
		 
				
		
		 
	 
				
		
		
			
				
																			
								DrEinstein  
									
		Posts:  75Joined:  Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:50 pmFull name:  Albert Einstein 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by DrEinstein  Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:21 am 
			
			
			
			
			
			marsell  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:54 am 
Where can I find this engine?
In the brain of Emanuel. Nowhere else!
And there it will be encapsulated forever!
 
		 
				
		
		 
	 
				
		
		
			
				
																			
								amanjpro  
									
		Posts:  883Joined:  Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:47 amFull name:  Amanj Sherwany 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by amanjpro  Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:15 am 
			
			
			
			
			
			DrEinstein  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:21 am marsell  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:54 am 
Where can I find this engine?
In the brain of Emanuel. Nowhere else!
And there it will be encapsulated forever!
But his brain segfaultd all the time... He's is too seasoned
 
		 
				
		
		 
	 
				
		
		
			
				
																			
								Uri Blass  
									
		Posts:  10915Joined:  Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 amLocation:  Tel-Aviv Israel 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by Uri Blass  Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:44 pm 
			
			
			
			
			
			klx  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:48 am Uri Blass  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:53 am 
It is practically impossible because there are too many lines and engines to prepare against them.
Engines with many cores are not deterministic so even preparing for one engine with no book is going to take you a lot of time and in games engines comes with a book that you do not know.
The system is also practically impossible against stockfish at long time control because I believe that you will get today usually draws even if you play 3+3 against 300+300 time control.
I do not claim that stockfish is perfect but I believe that it has not the knowledge to beat itself even at infinite time control and does not choose lines that cause stockfish at 3+3 time control to blunder.
Well aren't you the pessimist.
Are you saying that when Stockfish plays a tournament, they will use a "secret" opening book not available on Github? Stockfish claims to be open source.
Las Torres should still be able to handle this though, for example playing an unexpected move early on would throw a wrench into that opening book, after which Las Torres can take over and dominate.
Also, just making sure you read the Emanuelific part? It ensures there aren't too many lines.
Even with 100:1 time advantage you can expect to get draws in most of stockfish-stockfish games I try white 50,000,000 nodes per move against black 500000 nodes per move.
White draw most games based on my experience I gave stockfish a book of one move when the rest are no book games.
Results so far:
drawing lines
1.a3 1.a4 1.b3 1.c3 1.c4 1.e4 1.f3 1.g3 1.g4
winning for white 
1.b4 1.d3 1.d4  1.e3 1.f4 
I am sure you will get more draws in practical games because in practical games stockfish with many cores may search average of 50,000,000 nodes per move so you will need average of 5,000,000,000 nodes per move to play games with 100:1 time advantage.
Every game is going to take many hours and my guess is that you will get 90% draws in your tries games at 100:1 time advantage.
 
		 
				
		
		 
	 
				
		
		
			
				
																			
								dangi12012  
									
		Posts:  1062Joined:  Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:03 pmFull name:  Daniel Infuehr 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by dangi12012  Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:29 pm 
			
			
			
			
			
			Uri Blass  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:44 pm klx  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:48 am Uri Blass  wrote: ↑ Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:53 am 
It is practically impossible because there are too many lines and engines to prepare against them.
Engines with many cores are not deterministic so even preparing for one engine with no book is going to take you a lot of time and in games engines comes with a book that you do not know.
The system is also practically impossible against stockfish at long time control because I believe that you will get today usually draws even if you play 3+3 against 300+300 time control.
I do not claim that stockfish is perfect but I believe that it has not the knowledge to beat itself even at infinite time control and does not choose lines that cause stockfish at 3+3 time control to blunder.
Well aren't you the pessimist.
Are you saying that when Stockfish plays a tournament, they will use a "secret" opening book not available on Github? Stockfish claims to be open source.
Las Torres should still be able to handle this though, for example playing an unexpected move early on would throw a wrench into that opening book, after which Las Torres can take over and dominate.
Also, just making sure you read the Emanuelific part? It ensures there aren't too many lines.
Even with 100:1 time advantage you can expect to get draws in most of stockfish-stockfish games I try white 50,000,000 nodes per move against black 500000 nodes per move.
White draw most games based on my experience I gave stockfish a book of one move when the rest are no book games.
Results so far:
drawing lines
1.a3 1.a4 1.b3 1.c3 1.c4 1.e4 1.f3 1.g3 1.g4
winning for white 
1.b4 1.d3 1.d4  1.e3 1.f4 
I am sure you will get more draws in practical games because in practical games stockfish with many cores may search average of 50,000,000 nodes per move so you will need average of 5,000,000,000 nodes per move to play games with 100:1 time advantage.
Every game is going to take many hours and my guess is that you will get 90% draws in your tries games at 100:1 time advantage.
Try the same thing with EGTB vs no egtb. That 6 man endgame lookup sure makes it a lot better than more cores. 
But I digress. There is a paper where its Stockfish 32 Thread vs Stockfish 256 Threads. That gave it +100 Elo. 
Where is the source for your claims?
 
		 
				
		
		 
	 
				
		
		
			
				
																			
								Uri Blass  
									
		Posts:  10915Joined:  Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 amLocation:  Tel-Aviv Israel 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by Uri Blass  Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:19 pm 
			
			
			
			
			
			Stockfish with White and 50M nodes won against 500K nodes 6-0 with 14 draws
			
			
									
						
										
						 
		 
				
		
		 
	 
				
		
		
			
				
																			
								Uri Blass  
									
		Posts:  10915Joined:  Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 amLocation:  Tel-Aviv Israel 
		
						
					
								
						
									Post by Uri Blass  Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:19 pm 
			
			
			
			
			
			part 2 of the games