Kayra 1.1

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Peter Berger
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Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by Peter Berger »

connor_mcmonigle wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:26 pm An excellent analogy. However, in this case, even less effort is required as creating a replica is as easy as copy-pasting... It's really exasperating to watch such low effort clones receive so much attention from these clueless "fans".
But on the other hand: what is it to people to be so angry about it? As without the angry guys these discussions would soon vanish.
I can understand being angry about these authors, but about their fans?
People want to be creative and kind of matter. Downloading latest Stockfish doesn’t give you this feeling. So you might want to have a very cool computer that is faster than that of others, or create your own opening book that is ubercool. Or download some secret engine called Raubfish, or Eman or whatever - that others don’t even know about.
Now if Magnus Carlsen would state that he came across this great engine Raubfish, that is stronger than Stockfish, I could understand how this could make people angry 😊
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AlexChess
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Full name: Alex Morales

Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by AlexChess »

connor_mcmonigle wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:30 pm
How were Guenther and Amanj supposed to intuit that your real name is Alessandro Morales? Assuming you're not lying, this is impressively stupid.
Was MY error, sorry. I modified it to match my name here. It was zipped because I was fearing to leave my real data on a public forum.
Now I have changed it in my profile. You can continue to think that I'm not Alessandro Morales, if you likes. PS: just testing Seer 2.4.0.

Regards, Alex
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 :D macOS Sequoia 16GB-512GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
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connor_mcmonigle
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Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by connor_mcmonigle »

Peter Berger wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:19 pm
connor_mcmonigle wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:26 pm An excellent analogy. However, in this case, even less effort is required as creating a replica is as easy as copy-pasting... It's really exasperating to watch such low effort clones receive so much attention from these clueless "fans".
But on the other hand: what is it to people to be so angry about it? As without the angry guys these discussions would soon vanish.
I can understand being angry about these authors, but about their fans?
People want to be creative and kind of matter. Downloading latest Stockfish doesn’t give you this feeling. So you might want to have a very cool computer that is faster than that of others, or create your own opening book that is ubercool. Or download some secret engine called Raubfish, or Eman or whatever - that others don’t even know about.
Now if Magnus Carlsen would state that he came across this great engine Raubfish, that is stronger than Stockfish, I could understand how this could make people angry 😊

In the case of engines such as Raubfisch and Eman, which blatantly violate Stockfish's license, many are understandably upset as such violations are incredibly disrespectful to the many Stockfish authors who have effectively donated their time to the Stockfish project. By providing misleading test results (due to poor configuration/statistically insignificant samples) and subsequently incorrectly concluding their superiority, these "fans" are promoting the aforementioned illegal clones. I think you're correct in your understanding that these fans want to feel special/important/creative - as if they're the sole discoverer of some new and mysterious strongest engine. I don't think this behavior is intentionally malicious, though it's certainly irritating and disrespectful to the actual authors. It's not surprising this behavior generates some anger.

More generally, in the case of even legal clones which are intellectually void (amount to some very minor changes), such as Kayra, it's irritating for engine authors to see such clones receive attention over more original efforts. Making some inconsequential tweaks to a huge open source project and then slapping your name on the result and claiming "your engine" is superior to the original is quite narcissistic. It's especially frustrating for engine developers when people who clearly have zero understanding of statistics and fail to understand the inconsequential nature of the changes start claiming such intellectually void clones are superior to Stockfish.

There exist genuinely interesting and useful Stockfish forks such as Crystal and Sopel's "Fat Titz". In general, anyone should feel free to experiment with Stockfish and create a fork if they wish to provided they're motivated by curiosity or an interest in improving performance on some subdomain (puzzle solving for example). If you're only interested in randomly changing a few search parameters so that you can justify assigning your name to the resulting slightly modified version of Stockfish, then you clearly have the wrong motivations.
Eduard
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Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by Eduard »

The Kayra author wrote that he would like to make further changes. He doesn't want to change too much.

He actually wanted to test the engine with a few testers first, but he couldn't do that because some people here called for the source code.

Everything is wrong what he does, how is it right?
DrEinstein
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Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by DrEinstein »

Eduard wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:15 pm The Kayra author wrote that he would like to make further changes. He doesn't want to change too much.

He actually wanted to test the engine with a few testers first, but he couldn't do that because some people here called for the source code.

Everything is wrong what he does, how is it right?
-First create a SF fork
-Make changes in the code
-Test the resulting engines (own testing or on FishTest)
-If the changes are giving positive ELO
-write a PR and wait for the reaction of the other devs

This is at least a crude sketch of the normal SF developing process.
Note, that there's no point: renaming the engine from SF to blabla
amanjpro
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Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by amanjpro »

AlexChess wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:25 pm
connor_mcmonigle wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:30 pm
How were Guenther and Amanj supposed to intuit that your real name is Alessandro Morales? Assuming you're not lying, this is impressively stupid.
Was MY error, sorry. I modified it to match my name here. It was zipped because I was fearing to leave my real data on a public forum.
Now I have changed it in my profile. You can continue to think that I'm not Alessandro Morales, if you likes. PS: just testing Seer 2.4.0.

Regards, Alex
I searched for Alessandro (Italian for Alex) Morales on LinkedIn and found a profile that had the same profile picture as your chess.com account. And the job title on the page is program analyst, now I know a bit of Italian but not enough to tell what is the difference between this and programmer. But I choose to believe you.

I apologize for misjudging your claim. But please, next time when you share an evidence make sure it is verbatim, your altering of the screenshot made me suspicious. Sorry again for that
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AlexChess
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Full name: Alex Morales

Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by AlexChess »

amanjpro wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:02 am
AlexChess wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:25 pm
connor_mcmonigle wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:30 pm
How were Guenther and Amanj supposed to intuit that your real name is Alessandro Morales? Assuming you're not lying, this is impressively stupid.
Was MY error, sorry. I modified it to match my name here. It was zipped because I was fearing to leave my real data on a public forum.
Now I have changed it in my profile. You can continue to think that I'm not Alessandro Morales, if you likes. PS: just testing Seer 2.4.0.

Regards, Alex
I searched for Alessandro (Italian for Alex) Morales on LinkedIn and found a profile that had the same profile picture as your chess.com account. And the job title on the page is program analyst, now I know a bit of Italian but not enough to tell what is the difference between this and programmer. But I choose to believe you.

I apologize for misjudging your claim. But please, next time when you share an evidence make sure it is verbatim, your altering of the screenshot made me suspicious. Sorry again for that
There is a simpler way: send me an email to alessandro.morales@tiscali.it, I will send back to you Zahak logo :wink: or go to my blog http://microsmeta.com and click to chess.com banner. Sorry was my error to modify Proteus chess image. I have removed you from ignore list. I have removed all not GPLv3 engines from https://www.chess.com/forum/view/game-a ... e-fritz-17 (Alemor64 is the same account linked from microsmeta.com) You can reach my tech and developer blog also from http://web.tiscali.it/chessprograms/
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 :D macOS Sequoia 16GB-512GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
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mehmet123
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Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by mehmet123 »

AlexChess wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:45 pm Done!

Removed ALL not GPLv3 | MIT compliant engines from my running SuperBlitz in BanksiaGUI.

Raubfisch, Fisherov, Eman, AI-15, KillFish, Zeus11 and Alpha SubZero ...to meet open source community wishes.

Now challengers are 66 instead of 73.

Soon updating also the crosstable (I must complete remaining 132 games for each engine)

Best regards, Alex
Alex you continue to amaze me.
The main reason I suggested removing GPL violating engines was because I wanted Kayra to rank higher in your tournament. :)
Okay, not at the top, but don't forget that I removed around 40 green patches added to Stockfish in the last months from Kayra 1.1 codes for some reason. What if I just add these green patches to the Kayra codes and release a new version without getting tired :)
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AlexChess
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Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by AlexChess »

mehmet123 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:23 am
AlexChess wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:45 pm Done!

Removed ALL not GPLv3 | MIT compliant engines from my running SuperBlitz in BanksiaGUI.

Raubfisch, Fisherov, Eman, AI-15, KillFish, Zeus11 and Alpha SubZero ...to meet open source community wishes.

Now challengers are 66 instead of 73.

Soon updating also the crosstable (I must complete remaining 132 games for each engine)

Best regards, Alex
Alex you continue to amaze me.
The main reason I suggested removing GPL violating engines was because I wanted Kayra to rank higher in your tournament. :)
Okay, not at the top, but don't forget that I removed around 40 green patches added to Stockfish in the last months from Kayra 1.1 codes for some reason. What if I just add these green patches to the Kayra codes and release a new version without getting tired :)
I have decided so because it's simply the right decision. We must be grateful to Stockfish Team because of their hard and very useful work AND to respect the open source original authors here. I have asked to Raubfisch author to release his modified SF source code and he completely ignored me, thanking instead others supporting him :shock: . So I will not be the last to test his rip-off, even if it could not be illegal without sharing the engine. They give nothing to the chess developers, then I have completely removed all others not GPLv3 compliant engines and all older crosstables and comments. In 2022 finally I'll begin to develop my own GPLv3 SF derivative that also in Ed's Code of Honor it's allowed... His RebelFish is a must :wink:
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 :D macOS Sequoia 16GB-512GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
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AlexChess
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Re: Kayra 1.1

Post by AlexChess »

At the end is funny to have been considered the CLONE of myself and I have nothing to hide :lol:
http://www.microsmeta.com/dblog/articol ... ticolo=344

If you click the banner on right you go to my Alemo64 Chess.com profile.

This is my curriculum, as VB.net & C++ developer, IT security expert, Mephisto/Kasparov and chess software dealer from 1987 up to 2000 and chess magazine Torre & Cavallo writer. http://www.microsmeta.com/dblog/autori.asp?chi=Alex

Back to Kayra 1.1 PB + Eduard's keyra.bin

On my last test is very strong, but not stronger than recent CorChess 3 131221, Stockfish-dev 281121 (I'm updating it now to 191221) and latest Cfish 130821 (!)

In Keyra 1.2 could you increase the aggressivity? Since it never loses a game, maybe you can risk a little more. It would be nice to add also patterns to give pawns and pieces for positional advantage (...like Carsen does :D ) in a kamikaze mode. It's what I would do with my AlexChess SF derivative.
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 :D macOS Sequoia 16GB-512GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
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