Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

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Peter Berger
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Re: Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

Post by Peter Berger »

Guenther wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:35 pm
You talk about something different than what Frank started with this thread. Currently we are talking about simply (ab)using a plain SF net...
(including all SF nnue code and all SF eval and all training efforts by just plugin' a dll)
It seems you are even more confused than Frank?
Read Connors' posts in this thread may be that helps:
forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79407&p=921701#p921674
I certainly have no clue. But you got me interested and this looks as if I'll be able to understand some of it. Thanks.
Guenther
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Location: Regensburg, Germany
Full name: Guenther Simon

Re: Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

Post by Guenther »

Frank Quisinsky wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:20 pm
BTW:
It's possible for you to compile a new Bit-Genie for my next "run-3".
9.19 have problems with endgames (often not set mate, games ended with a draw).

Best
Frank
Of course I can compile a current Bit-Genie, but I haven't checked if this issue is fixed or known?
Have you ever reported it? Just create an issue at github, if not.
Can you post an example in a new thread about Bit-Genie? That's the usual way.

Edit:
Those patches could have influence on your problems, but it needs to be tested.
https://github.com/Aryan1508/Bit-Genie/pull/208
https://github.com/Aryan1508/Bit-Genie/pull/207

I am currently using 9.23 here and there was a tc fix for (exotic) mps time controls with inc after this.
I will PM you with some compilations...
https://rwbc-chess.de

[Trolls n'existent pas...]
Frank Quisinsky
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Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi Günther,

I am reading here ...
https://ifross.github.io/ifrOSS/Lizenzcenter
It's sheer lunacy, have the people no other things in the brain.
To much is to much!

...

I try to contact the programmer of Bit-Genie via private message and got from Sam Hull:
"The following is an email sent to you by Frank Quisinsky via your account on "TalkChess.com". If this message is spam, contains abusive or other comments you find offensive please contact the webmaster of the board at the following address:"

Database from FCP Tourney-Ki, run-2 are full of such games.
Bit-Genie lost a lot of points.

I will search the games in the evening, need time for it.

Thanks Günther!

Best
Frank
Last edited by Frank Quisinsky on Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
connor_mcmonigle
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Full name: Connor McMonigle

Re: Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

Post by connor_mcmonigle »

If engine B copies engine A's evaluation function functionally verbatim, can we really consider engine B a unique engine? At this point, why not just copy the search as well? The majority of authors have avoided doing this as it's generally regarded as incredibly boring and doing so eliminates any room for creativity and differentiation with respect to the evaluation function.

Current exceptions that I'm aware of are: FireNN, Gogobello, Mayhem, Tornado, AndscacsNNUE (the author mentioned this was just an experiment and not to be tested), BBC (also just an experiment), Caissa and Coiled. It could make sense to append "SF" to the end of these engines' names, but I'd argue you'd be better off just not testing them in that case (which is the policy CCRL has adopted FWIW).
Last edited by connor_mcmonigle on Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Frank Quisinsky
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Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi Conner,

Caissa also?
Will be on my list for the next run-3!

Could you give me hints I have to set such an information:
Coiled 1.1 NNsf (sf for Stockfish for an example).

With Rodent 1.0 NN I am not sure (from Scorpio?).
With DanaSah 9.0 NN I am not sure (from Scorpio?).
Maybe others?

With Gogobello and Andscacs, Coiled I am sure.

Must do that I think!!
Thanks for your time!

Best
Frank

Here the current file:

Code: Select all

March 08th, 2022 (10:00)
After 56.352 games

KI-Ratings, v2.28-a23
Shredder 13 = 3125.00 Elo

... after round 28 out of 30 from "run-2", still running
... after round 23 out of 30 from "run-A", still running


    # Player                      :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD

  01. Stockfish 311221 NN dev     :  3488.78   1699    80.9  1052   646     1  1375.0   38.0  13.70  3205.88  11.28   57.9
  02. Lc0 0.28.2 611062 GPU       :  3473.70    920    80.2   557   362     1   738.0   39.3  17.95  3198.62  10.54   40.0 ... on RTX-3070 Ti
  --. Stockfish 151121 NN dev     :  3469.45   1200    81.9   767   431     2   982.5   35.9  16.64  3176.04  11.00   40.0
  03. ShashChess 20.2 NN          :  3461.36   1120    78.0   628   491     1   873.5   43.8  15.62  3214.96  11.08   40.0
  04. Dragon 2.6 NN (Komodo)      :  3458.03   1699    78.3   973   714    12  1330.0   42.0  12.85  3206.42  11.30   57.9
  --. Dragon 2.5.1 NN (Komodo)    :  3453.85   1200    80.6   741   452     7   967.0   37.7  16.65  3176.43  11.00   40.0
  05. Fire 8 MC.3 NN              :  3382.12   2179    70.3   953  1158    68  1532.0   53.1  10.04  3210.73  11.78   73.9
  06. SlowChess Blitz 2.83 NN     :  3368.85   1120    68.5   455   624    41   767.0   55.7  13.69  3217.28  11.12   40.0
  07. Koivisto 7.13 NN            :  3367.66   1120    68.3   467   597    56   765.5   53.3  13.84  3217.31  11.12   40.0
  08. Revenge 2.0 NN              :  3362.13   1699    68.6   701   930    68  1166.0   54.7  11.16  3208.11  11.33   57.9
  09. Berserk 8.5.1 NN            :  3360.94   1223    69.3   510   675    38   847.5   55.2  13.88  3201.03  10.58   41.0
  --. SlowChess Blitz 2.8 NN      :  3359.25   1703    68.3   691   943    69  1162.5   55.4  10.74  3206.76  11.41   57.0
  --. Berserk 9 NN dev            :  3359.02   1120    67.4   449   611    60   754.5   54.6  13.63  3217.52  11.13   40.0
  --. Koivisto 7.5 NN             :  3349.38   1200    70.5   545   601    54   845.5   50.1  13.71  3179.05  11.07   40.0
  10. rofChade 2.317 NN dev       :  3343.61   1120    65.6   424   621    75   734.5   55.4  13.42  3217.91  11.13   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  11. Ethereal 13.25 NN           :  3343.54   1703    66.5   666   933   104  1132.5   54.8  10.85  3207.03  11.41   57.0
  --. Koivisto 7.9 NN             :  3337.99   1223    66.7   475   682    66   816.0   55.8  13.33  3201.59  10.60   41.0
  --. Berserk 7 NN                :  3336.86   1200    69.1   508   642    50   829.0   53.5  13.43  3179.36  11.08   40.0
  12. RubiChess 2021 NN           :  3320.84   1699    63.9   603   966   130  1086.0   56.9  10.81  3208.84  11.33   57.9
  --. RubiChess 2.2 NN            :  3302.21   1200    65.1   441   681    78   781.5   56.8  12.79  3180.22  11.10   40.0
  --. rofChade 2.313 NN dev       :  3289.23   1223    61.0   410   671   142   745.5   54.9  12.27  3202.79  10.62   41.0
  --. Revenge 1.0 NN              :  3283.62   1200    62.9   404   702    94   755.0   58.5  12.57  3180.69  11.10   40.0
  13. Seer 2.4.0 NN               :  3283.18   1699    59.4   510   998   191  1009.0   58.7  10.24  3209.51  11.34   57.9
  --. Seer 2.4.0 NN dev           :  3272.60   1200    61.6   397   684   119   739.0   57.0  12.45  3180.96  11.10   40.0
  14. Igel 3.0.10 NN              :  3271.95   2179    57.6   572  1365   242  1254.5   62.6   9.10  3212.25  11.79   73.9
  15. Nemorino 6.09 NN dev        :  3257.11   2179    55.7   578  1273   328  1214.5   58.4   9.04  3212.45  11.79   73.9
  --. rofChade 2.310 NN dev       :  3253.96   1200    59.3   370   683   147   711.5   56.9  12.84  3181.43  11.09   40.0
  16. Arasan 23.2 NN              :  3250.96   1699    55.4   425  1032   242   941.0   60.7  10.30  3210.08  11.34   57.9
  --. Lc0 0.28.2 752187 CPU       :  3248.25   1676    55.5   402  1056   218   930.0   63.0  10.09  3206.51  11.26   57.0
  17. Rodent 1.0 NN               :  3246.28   1699    54.8   390  1082   227   931.0   63.7   9.38  3210.16  11.36   57.9
  18. Coiled 1.1 NN               :  3246.18   1120    53.5   251   697   172   599.5   62.2  12.48  3220.34  11.16   40.0
  19. Tucano 10.00 NN             :  3239.92   1120    52.7   235   711   174   590.5   63.5  12.29  3220.50  11.16   40.0
  20. Minic 3.18 NN               :  3233.33   1120    51.9   246   670   204   581.0   59.8  12.57  3220.67  11.15   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  21. Booot 7.0 NN dev            :  3232.99   1120    51.8   228   705   187   580.5   62.9  12.49  3220.67  11.15   40.0
  --. Arasan 23.0.1 NN            :  3226.37   1200    55.8   309   722   169   670.0   60.2  12.93  3182.12  11.09   40.0
  --. Lc0 0.28.0 744204 CPU       :  3210.64   1200    53.8   311   670   219   646.0   55.8  12.10  3182.51  11.11   40.0
  --. Booot 6.5                   :  3198.13   1703    48.9   343   978   382   832.0   57.4  10.12  3209.60  11.42   57.0
  22. Wasp 5.26 NN dev            :  3189.38   1120    46.2   203   629   288   517.5   56.2  12.22  3221.76  11.16   40.0
  23. Xiphos 0.6                  :  3177.58   2179    45.8   346  1303   530   997.5   59.8   9.23  3213.55  11.79   73.9
  --. Wasp 5.20 NN                :  3168.13   1223    45.7   208   701   314   558.5   57.3  12.03  3205.76  10.63   41.0
  --. Minic 3.17 NN               :  3163.72   1703    44.5   269   979   455   758.5   57.5  10.15  3210.20  11.42   57.0
  24. Clover 3.0 NN               :  3159.73   1120    42.4   161   628   331   475.0   56.1  12.65  3222.51  11.15   40.0
  --. Wasp 5.00 NN                :  3158.38   1200    47.1   202   727   271   565.5   60.6  11.90  3183.82  11.12   40.0
  25. Weiss 2.0                   :  3150.85   2179    42.5   328  1194   657   925.0   54.8   8.94  3213.92  11.80   73.9
  26. Combusken 2.0.0             :  3142.42   1120    40.2   135   631   354   450.5   56.3  12.65  3222.94  11.15   40.0
  27. Schooner 2.2 XB             :  3138.73   2179    41.0   286  1213   680   892.5   55.7   8.79  3214.08  11.80   73.9
  28. Gogobello 3.0 NN            :  3138.22   1223    41.9   141   742   340   512.0   60.7  12.04  3206.49  10.63   41.0
  29. Defenchess 2.3 dev          :  3135.74   2179    40.6   295  1179   705   884.5   54.1   8.95  3214.12  11.80   73.9
  30. Zahak 8.6 dev               :  3132.99   1200    43.9   205   643   352   526.5   53.6  11.77  3184.46  11.12   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  31. Fritz 18 (Ginkgo)           :  3131.57   2179    40.1   281  1185   713   873.5   54.4   9.62  3214.18  11.79   73.9
  32. Bit-Genie 9.19 dev          :  3129.90   1120    38.7   142   582   396   433.0   52.0  12.95  3223.25  11.14   40.0
  33. Laser 1.7                   :  3127.99   2179    39.7   292  1144   743   864.0   52.5   8.76  3214.23  11.80   73.9
  34. Velvet 3.2.0 NN             :  3127.74   1120    38.4   126   608   386   430.0   54.3  12.45  3223.31  11.16   40.0
  --. Zahak 9.0                   :  3127.22   1699    39.8   217   917   565   675.5   54.0  10.44  3212.26  11.34   57.9
  35. Shredder 13                 :  3125.00   2179    39.3   293  1126   760   856.0   51.7   9.04  3214.27  11.79   73.9
  36. Rebel 14.1 NN               :  3124.49   1120    38.0   140   571   409   425.5   51.0  12.36  3223.39  11.16   40.0
  --. Clover 2.4                  :  3120.62   1703    39.2   194   948   561   668.0   55.7  10.55  3210.96  11.41   57.0
  37. Marvin 5.2.0 NN             :  3114.92   2179    38.1   246  1167   766   829.5   53.6   9.38  3214.41  11.79   73.9
  38. Chiron 5                    :  3109.18   2179    37.4   269  1091   819   814.5   50.1   8.86  3214.49  11.80   73.9
  39. DanaSah 9.0 NN              :  3103.01   2179    36.6   231  1135   813   798.5   52.1   8.96  3214.58  11.80   73.9
  40. Fizbo 2.0                   :  3101.07   2179    36.4   230  1127   822   793.5   51.7   9.43  3214.60  11.79   73.9
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  41. Andscacs 0.95.123 dev       :  3098.74   2179    36.1   247  1081   851   787.5   49.6   9.42  3214.63  11.79   73.9
  42. Hiarcs 15.0                 :  3098.45   1120    34.8   102   576   442   390.0   51.4  12.60  3224.04  11.15   40.0
  43. Dark Toga 1.1 NN            :  3091.18   1703    35.7   191   834   678   608.0   49.0  10.28  3211.48  11.42   57.0
  44. Stash 32                    :  3084.06   1223    35.2   116   629   478   430.5   51.4  12.25  3207.82  10.62   41.0
  45. Halogen 10 NN               :  3072.79   1703    33.6   153   837   713   571.5   49.1  10.89  3211.80  11.41   57.0
  46. Winter 0.9                  :  3072.25   1703    33.5   178   785   740   570.5   46.1  10.50  3211.81  11.41   57.0
  47. GullChess 3.0 Sy            :  3066.09   1703    32.8   160   797   746   558.5   46.8  10.86  3211.92  11.41   57.0
  48. Orion 0.8 NN                :  3058.04   1703    31.9   104   878   721   543.0   51.6  11.01  3212.06  11.40   57.0
  --. Wasp 4.50                   :  3057.61   1223    32.1    92   601   530   392.5   49.1  13.26  3208.47  10.60   41.0
  --. Stash 31.16 dev             :  3048.13   1200    33.4    96   610   494   401.0   50.8  12.69  3186.58  11.10   40.0
  49. Black Marlin 4.0 NN         :  3023.70   1120    26.4    51   489   580   295.5   43.7  14.27  3225.91  11.11   40.0
  50. Nirvanachess 2.5            :  3020.22   1200    30.2    76   573   551   362.5   47.8  13.75  3187.27  11.07   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  --. Combusken 1.4.0             :  3012.00   1200    29.3    91   521   588   351.5   43.4  13.52  3187.48  11.08   40.0
  51. Demolito 2021-07-09         :  3009.36   1200    29.0    93   510   597   348.0   42.5  13.36  3187.55  11.08   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


White advantage             = 67.57  +/- 0.93
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 71.97% +/- 0.27


Summary by Norm Pollock:

Games      : 56.352   ( no result = 0,  FEN tags = 0 )
Players    : 75       ( clusters = 1 )

Date Range : 2021.11.08 - 2022.03.08

White Wins : 17.525   ( 31.10% )
Draws      : 30.175   ( 53.55% )
Black Wins :  8.652   ( 15.35% )
White Pct  : 57.87%
Black Pct  : 42.13%

Range      : 39-595
Average    : 179.10 = 89,55 moves ( without resign-mode )
StdDev     : 74.48

ECO:
A: 10.694
B: 12.473
C: 12.520
D:  9.823
E: 10.842
Last edited by Frank Quisinsky on Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guenther
Posts: 4718
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:33 am
Location: Regensburg, Germany
Full name: Guenther Simon

Bit-Genie 9.23 dev

Post by Guenther »

Guenther wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:18 pm
I am currently using 9.23 here and there was a tc fix for (exotic) mps time controls with inc after this.
I will PM you with some compilations...
I decided to post a link here exceptionally. Note that I will delete it tomorrow and move to my download site,
which I will restructure tomorrow.
This is 9.23 dev, as I still had the sources in my environment, moreover 9.24 just has an additional fix for the exoric mps+inc tc.

https://rwbc-chess.de/Downloads/Engines ... nie_923.7z
https://rwbc-chess.de

[Trolls n'existent pas...]
Guenther
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Location: Regensburg, Germany
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Re: Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

Post by Guenther »

Frank Quisinsky wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:40 pm Hi Conner,

Caissa also?
Yes... just check my XB/UCI chronology, none of them is added. It is clean of SF NNUE recycling.
https://rwbc-chess.de

[Trolls n'existent pas...]
Frank Quisinsky
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
Location: Gutweiler, Germany
Full name: Frank Quisinsky

Re: Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

Post by Frank Quisinsky »

Hi Günther,

that's what I mean.
NN is a part of program.

In my opinion the work by programmers, used SF NN, should be not ignore.
To many programs!

To search a way, all can life with it, seens to be an order!

Best
Frank
connor_mcmonigle
Posts: 544
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:40 am
Full name: Connor McMonigle

Re: Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

Post by connor_mcmonigle »

Frank Quisinsky wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:40 pm Hi Conner,

Caissa also?
Will be on my list for the next run-3!

Could you give me hints I have to set such an information:
Coiled 1.1 NNsf (sf for Stockfish for an example).

With Rodent 1.0 NN I am not sure (from Scorpio?).
With DanaSah 9.0 NN I am not sure (from Scorpio?).
Maybe others?

With Gogobello and Andscacs, Coiled I am sure.

Must do that I think!!
Thanks for your time!

Best
Frank

Here the current file:

Code: Select all

March 08th, 2022 (10:00)
After 56.352 games

KI-Ratings, v2.28-a23
Shredder 13 = 3125.00 Elo

... after round 28 out of 30 from "run-2", still running
... after round 23 out of 30 from "run-A", still running


    # Player                      :      Elo  Games  Score%  won  draw  lost  Points  Draw%  Error   OppAvg   OppE   OppD

  01. Stockfish 311221 NN dev     :  3488.78   1699    80.9  1052   646     1  1375.0   38.0  13.70  3205.88  11.28   57.9
  02. Lc0 0.28.2 611062 GPU       :  3473.70    920    80.2   557   362     1   738.0   39.3  17.95  3198.62  10.54   40.0 ... on RTX-3070 Ti
  --. Stockfish 151121 NN dev     :  3469.45   1200    81.9   767   431     2   982.5   35.9  16.64  3176.04  11.00   40.0
  03. ShashChess 20.2 NN          :  3461.36   1120    78.0   628   491     1   873.5   43.8  15.62  3214.96  11.08   40.0
  04. Dragon 2.6 NN (Komodo)      :  3458.03   1699    78.3   973   714    12  1330.0   42.0  12.85  3206.42  11.30   57.9
  --. Dragon 2.5.1 NN (Komodo)    :  3453.85   1200    80.6   741   452     7   967.0   37.7  16.65  3176.43  11.00   40.0
  05. Fire 8 MC.3 NN              :  3382.12   2179    70.3   953  1158    68  1532.0   53.1  10.04  3210.73  11.78   73.9
  06. SlowChess Blitz 2.83 NN     :  3368.85   1120    68.5   455   624    41   767.0   55.7  13.69  3217.28  11.12   40.0
  07. Koivisto 7.13 NN            :  3367.66   1120    68.3   467   597    56   765.5   53.3  13.84  3217.31  11.12   40.0
  08. Revenge 2.0 NN              :  3362.13   1699    68.6   701   930    68  1166.0   54.7  11.16  3208.11  11.33   57.9
  09. Berserk 8.5.1 NN            :  3360.94   1223    69.3   510   675    38   847.5   55.2  13.88  3201.03  10.58   41.0
  --. SlowChess Blitz 2.8 NN      :  3359.25   1703    68.3   691   943    69  1162.5   55.4  10.74  3206.76  11.41   57.0
  --. Berserk 9 NN dev            :  3359.02   1120    67.4   449   611    60   754.5   54.6  13.63  3217.52  11.13   40.0
  --. Koivisto 7.5 NN             :  3349.38   1200    70.5   545   601    54   845.5   50.1  13.71  3179.05  11.07   40.0
  10. rofChade 2.317 NN dev       :  3343.61   1120    65.6   424   621    75   734.5   55.4  13.42  3217.91  11.13   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  11. Ethereal 13.25 NN           :  3343.54   1703    66.5   666   933   104  1132.5   54.8  10.85  3207.03  11.41   57.0
  --. Koivisto 7.9 NN             :  3337.99   1223    66.7   475   682    66   816.0   55.8  13.33  3201.59  10.60   41.0
  --. Berserk 7 NN                :  3336.86   1200    69.1   508   642    50   829.0   53.5  13.43  3179.36  11.08   40.0
  12. RubiChess 2021 NN           :  3320.84   1699    63.9   603   966   130  1086.0   56.9  10.81  3208.84  11.33   57.9
  --. RubiChess 2.2 NN            :  3302.21   1200    65.1   441   681    78   781.5   56.8  12.79  3180.22  11.10   40.0
  --. rofChade 2.313 NN dev       :  3289.23   1223    61.0   410   671   142   745.5   54.9  12.27  3202.79  10.62   41.0
  --. Revenge 1.0 NN              :  3283.62   1200    62.9   404   702    94   755.0   58.5  12.57  3180.69  11.10   40.0
  13. Seer 2.4.0 NN               :  3283.18   1699    59.4   510   998   191  1009.0   58.7  10.24  3209.51  11.34   57.9
  --. Seer 2.4.0 NN dev           :  3272.60   1200    61.6   397   684   119   739.0   57.0  12.45  3180.96  11.10   40.0
  14. Igel 3.0.10 NN              :  3271.95   2179    57.6   572  1365   242  1254.5   62.6   9.10  3212.25  11.79   73.9
  15. Nemorino 6.09 NN dev        :  3257.11   2179    55.7   578  1273   328  1214.5   58.4   9.04  3212.45  11.79   73.9
  --. rofChade 2.310 NN dev       :  3253.96   1200    59.3   370   683   147   711.5   56.9  12.84  3181.43  11.09   40.0
  16. Arasan 23.2 NN              :  3250.96   1699    55.4   425  1032   242   941.0   60.7  10.30  3210.08  11.34   57.9
  --. Lc0 0.28.2 752187 CPU       :  3248.25   1676    55.5   402  1056   218   930.0   63.0  10.09  3206.51  11.26   57.0
  17. Rodent 1.0 NN               :  3246.28   1699    54.8   390  1082   227   931.0   63.7   9.38  3210.16  11.36   57.9
  18. Coiled 1.1 NN               :  3246.18   1120    53.5   251   697   172   599.5   62.2  12.48  3220.34  11.16   40.0
  19. Tucano 10.00 NN             :  3239.92   1120    52.7   235   711   174   590.5   63.5  12.29  3220.50  11.16   40.0
  20. Minic 3.18 NN               :  3233.33   1120    51.9   246   670   204   581.0   59.8  12.57  3220.67  11.15   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  21. Booot 7.0 NN dev            :  3232.99   1120    51.8   228   705   187   580.5   62.9  12.49  3220.67  11.15   40.0
  --. Arasan 23.0.1 NN            :  3226.37   1200    55.8   309   722   169   670.0   60.2  12.93  3182.12  11.09   40.0
  --. Lc0 0.28.0 744204 CPU       :  3210.64   1200    53.8   311   670   219   646.0   55.8  12.10  3182.51  11.11   40.0
  --. Booot 6.5                   :  3198.13   1703    48.9   343   978   382   832.0   57.4  10.12  3209.60  11.42   57.0
  22. Wasp 5.26 NN dev            :  3189.38   1120    46.2   203   629   288   517.5   56.2  12.22  3221.76  11.16   40.0
  23. Xiphos 0.6                  :  3177.58   2179    45.8   346  1303   530   997.5   59.8   9.23  3213.55  11.79   73.9
  --. Wasp 5.20 NN                :  3168.13   1223    45.7   208   701   314   558.5   57.3  12.03  3205.76  10.63   41.0
  --. Minic 3.17 NN               :  3163.72   1703    44.5   269   979   455   758.5   57.5  10.15  3210.20  11.42   57.0
  24. Clover 3.0 NN               :  3159.73   1120    42.4   161   628   331   475.0   56.1  12.65  3222.51  11.15   40.0
  --. Wasp 5.00 NN                :  3158.38   1200    47.1   202   727   271   565.5   60.6  11.90  3183.82  11.12   40.0
  25. Weiss 2.0                   :  3150.85   2179    42.5   328  1194   657   925.0   54.8   8.94  3213.92  11.80   73.9
  26. Combusken 2.0.0             :  3142.42   1120    40.2   135   631   354   450.5   56.3  12.65  3222.94  11.15   40.0
  27. Schooner 2.2 XB             :  3138.73   2179    41.0   286  1213   680   892.5   55.7   8.79  3214.08  11.80   73.9
  28. Gogobello 3.0 NN            :  3138.22   1223    41.9   141   742   340   512.0   60.7  12.04  3206.49  10.63   41.0
  29. Defenchess 2.3 dev          :  3135.74   2179    40.6   295  1179   705   884.5   54.1   8.95  3214.12  11.80   73.9
  30. Zahak 8.6 dev               :  3132.99   1200    43.9   205   643   352   526.5   53.6  11.77  3184.46  11.12   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  31. Fritz 18 (Ginkgo)           :  3131.57   2179    40.1   281  1185   713   873.5   54.4   9.62  3214.18  11.79   73.9
  32. Bit-Genie 9.19 dev          :  3129.90   1120    38.7   142   582   396   433.0   52.0  12.95  3223.25  11.14   40.0
  33. Laser 1.7                   :  3127.99   2179    39.7   292  1144   743   864.0   52.5   8.76  3214.23  11.80   73.9
  34. Velvet 3.2.0 NN             :  3127.74   1120    38.4   126   608   386   430.0   54.3  12.45  3223.31  11.16   40.0
  --. Zahak 9.0                   :  3127.22   1699    39.8   217   917   565   675.5   54.0  10.44  3212.26  11.34   57.9
  35. Shredder 13                 :  3125.00   2179    39.3   293  1126   760   856.0   51.7   9.04  3214.27  11.79   73.9
  36. Rebel 14.1 NN               :  3124.49   1120    38.0   140   571   409   425.5   51.0  12.36  3223.39  11.16   40.0
  --. Clover 2.4                  :  3120.62   1703    39.2   194   948   561   668.0   55.7  10.55  3210.96  11.41   57.0
  37. Marvin 5.2.0 NN             :  3114.92   2179    38.1   246  1167   766   829.5   53.6   9.38  3214.41  11.79   73.9
  38. Chiron 5                    :  3109.18   2179    37.4   269  1091   819   814.5   50.1   8.86  3214.49  11.80   73.9
  39. DanaSah 9.0 NN              :  3103.01   2179    36.6   231  1135   813   798.5   52.1   8.96  3214.58  11.80   73.9
  40. Fizbo 2.0                   :  3101.07   2179    36.4   230  1127   822   793.5   51.7   9.43  3214.60  11.79   73.9
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  41. Andscacs 0.95.123 dev       :  3098.74   2179    36.1   247  1081   851   787.5   49.6   9.42  3214.63  11.79   73.9
  42. Hiarcs 15.0                 :  3098.45   1120    34.8   102   576   442   390.0   51.4  12.60  3224.04  11.15   40.0
  43. Dark Toga 1.1 NN            :  3091.18   1703    35.7   191   834   678   608.0   49.0  10.28  3211.48  11.42   57.0
  44. Stash 32                    :  3084.06   1223    35.2   116   629   478   430.5   51.4  12.25  3207.82  10.62   41.0
  45. Halogen 10 NN               :  3072.79   1703    33.6   153   837   713   571.5   49.1  10.89  3211.80  11.41   57.0
  46. Winter 0.9                  :  3072.25   1703    33.5   178   785   740   570.5   46.1  10.50  3211.81  11.41   57.0
  47. GullChess 3.0 Sy            :  3066.09   1703    32.8   160   797   746   558.5   46.8  10.86  3211.92  11.41   57.0
  48. Orion 0.8 NN                :  3058.04   1703    31.9   104   878   721   543.0   51.6  11.01  3212.06  11.40   57.0
  --. Wasp 4.50                   :  3057.61   1223    32.1    92   601   530   392.5   49.1  13.26  3208.47  10.60   41.0
  --. Stash 31.16 dev             :  3048.13   1200    33.4    96   610   494   401.0   50.8  12.69  3186.58  11.10   40.0
  49. Black Marlin 4.0 NN         :  3023.70   1120    26.4    51   489   580   295.5   43.7  14.27  3225.91  11.11   40.0
  50. Nirvanachess 2.5            :  3020.22   1200    30.2    76   573   551   362.5   47.8  13.75  3187.27  11.07   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  --. Combusken 1.4.0             :  3012.00   1200    29.3    91   521   588   351.5   43.4  13.52  3187.48  11.08   40.0
  51. Demolito 2021-07-09         :  3009.36   1200    29.0    93   510   597   348.0   42.5  13.36  3187.55  11.08   40.0
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


White advantage             = 67.57  +/- 0.93
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 71.97% +/- 0.27


Summary by Norm Pollock:

Games      : 56.352   ( no result = 0,  FEN tags = 0 )
Players    : 75       ( clusters = 1 )

Date Range : 2021.11.08 - 2022.03.08

White Wins : 17.525   ( 31.10% )
Draws      : 30.175   ( 53.55% )
Black Wins :  8.652   ( 15.35% )
White Pct  : 57.87%
Black Pct  : 42.13%

Range      : 39-595
Average    : 179.10 = 89,55 moves ( without resign-mode )
StdDev     : 74.48

ECO:
A: 10.694
B: 12.473
C: 12.520
D:  9.823
E: 10.842
Rodent NN is also using a SF network as well (and I believe the author indicated that they prefer it not be tested as well). Danasah is using SF derived inference code and SF training code+game generation code, but with a network initially trained on CCRL data and then further trained with Stockfish self play with the original CCRL network loaded. In the case of Danasah, it's not immediately clear what the correct choice would be.

In any case, it's disappointing to see you remove more original, interesting, engines (such as Winter) in favor of these lower effort engines. It definitely reduces the value of your rating list relative to CCRL in my opinion.
mar
Posts: 2672
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: Czech Republic
Full name: Martin Sedlak

Re: Andscacs 0.1 with NN file from Coiled ...

Post by mar »

what's the deal, Frank?
we see lots of absolutely mediocre engines that wouldn't be even sub-par with HCE, gaining several hundred elo with NNUE they don't deserve, especially copy-pasting SF nets.