Chess324

[Modern Times]

chess324 is a subset of DFRC, but has no positions clearly beyond the draw range, and doesn't require the special rules of castling. For some purposes there may be a need for more than the 648 game matches possible with chess324, so there may still be a reason to continue to explore DFRC, but for the vast majority of uses 648 games should be enough between two particular opponents.

So engines do not have to have FRC support to use these openings ? You start a standard chess tournament and the GUI and engines will understand ?

[lkaufman]

Why reduce the number of possibilities making it easier to prepare openings.
I would say that the old proposition of Chess2880 where there is no castling and the only rule for the pieces is that the bishops must be on different colours is much better.
More possibilities and randomness, no special rules and any engine that can take a FEN input can play it.

I have for many years wondered why people are so hung up on castling that they even had to implement it in Chess960.

Best regards
anst

The point is not to reduce the number of possibilities, it is that the symmetrical positions such as the 2880 in chess2880 are too drawish when the opponents are (or use, as in correspondence play) top engines. Also chess324 is just much more like normal chess with normal castling rules. Of course I could dramatically increase the number of positions by letting the king be anywhere, forfeiting castling when not on e1 or e8, but then hundreds of the positions would be surely winning for one side or the other. It is just a lucky break that chess324 leads to many positions approaching the win/draw line, but probably none clearly/significantly beyond it. I doubt that any other simple rule will produce this desirable consequence.

[lkaufman]

chess324 is a subset of DFRC, but has no positions clearly beyond the draw range, and doesn't require the special rules of castling. For some purposes there may be a need for more than the 648 game matches possible with chess324, so there may still be a reason to continue to explore DFRC, but for the vast majority of uses 648 games should be enough between two particular opponents.

So engines do not have to have FRC support to use these openings ? You start a standard chess tournament and the GUI and engines will understand ?

Yes, that's right! They are just alternate start positions, all standard rules of chess still apply. Of course they are not legal start positions (except one), since they cannot be created by a sequence of legal moves from the normal start position.

[Modern Times]

chess324 is a subset of DFRC, but has no positions clearly beyond the draw range, and doesn't require the special rules of castling. For some purposes there may be a need for more than the 648 game matches possible with chess324, so there may still be a reason to continue to explore DFRC, but for the vast majority of uses 648 games should be enough between two particular opponents.

So engines do not have to have FRC support to use these openings ? You start a standard chess tournament and the GUI and engines will understand ?

Yes, that's right! They are just alternate start positions, all standard rules of chess still apply. Of course they are not legal start positions (except one), since they cannot be created by a sequence of legal moves from the normal start position.

OK, I may try a round-robin tournament of a few top engines and see how it is. After I get a pgn of the 324 positions that is.

[Leo]

There has been some discussion about how to improve chess960 (Fischerandom Chess) to address the fact that when top engines play against each other on good hardware at Rapid or slower time controls almost all the games end in draws, just as in normal chess (without forced unbalanced openings). Scrapping the symmetry requirement leads to some positions where one side is quite clearly winning.
I believe I have found a solution that is aesthetically pleasing, doesn't require special castling rules, and will dramatically lower draw percentages without any clearly won positions. I call it "Chess324". All rules are the same as in normal chess, including castling, only the start position is modified. The kings and rooks are placed on their normal positions. All the other pieces for White and Black are placed randomly, with no symmetry requirement, with the only restriction being that for each side the bishops must be on opposite colored squares. Unless I have miscalculated, there are 18 permutations for each side, making 324 total possible positions (including 18 symmetrical ones that are legal in chess960 of which 1 is the normal start position of chess).
In order to determine whether these positions are playable, I checked out the most promising-looking ones for White by checking whether White's advantage ever exceeds Black's advantage in normal chess after the Grob (1g4?) is played. There has been much discussion in the past over whether the Grob is losing or not, and I doubt that anyone really knows the answer; the Hiarcs database has Black winning 49% of the games, Lc0 gives Black 54% winning chance, and Stockfish and Dragon give evals suggesting that it is more likely to be a win than a draw but is very near the line. I checked all the promising positions I could think of with recent versions of Stockfish, Dragon, and Lc0, and in no case did I find one that produced an advantage larger than Black gets with the Grob (one position was tied per Lc0 but less per SF and Dragon). Of course the evals are all over the place, sometimes even Black is better, sometimes it's about even but not "balanced", sometimes one side is much better, but never clearly winning (at least not as clearly winning as the Grob as far as I was able to tell). Since many evals clearly favor one side, chess324 should be played in pairs of games, each side having White from the same position once. With humans, that's not essential, just recommended; with engines it would be necessary.
This version has huge advantages over chess960. First, no special castling rules, any engine or GUI or human can play with no instruction after seeing the initial position. Second, since all but 18 of the 324 positions are asymmetrical, opening play should be much more interesting and complex. Third, the normal positioning of the rooks and kings and normal castling makes the game feel closer to normal chess. Fourth, matches of up to 648 games can be played with no repeat positions, generally enough for most purposes. Most important, no matter how many cores or how much time the engines get, there should be plenty of decisive games for the foreseeable future since many positions are at least not too far from the win/draw line. The stronger engine will score 1.5 out of 2 in many of these positions for many years to come, unless chess is truly solved some day.
It is quite possible that a few of the initial positions may ultimately be judged to be won for White, but I am confident that even if they are "won", they will be near enough to the draw line to be playable with any current hardware or engines.

Instead of Chess960 (Fischer-Random Chess it should be called (Kaufman-Random Chess) Chess324 your name will be remembered forever. I already have collected the 324 positions and replaced them with the 960 position and will be the first to start a Kaufman Random chess match between Stockfish and Komodo Dragon once I get your Dragon 3.1 which I will purchase at the end of this weekend

Good idea.

[hgm]

Code: Select all

#include <stdio.h>

char *row[18] = {
  "rbbqknnr",
  "rqbbknnr",
  "rqbnkbnr",
  "rbqnknbr",
  "rqnbknbr",
  "rqnnkbbr",
  "rbbnkqnr",
  "rnbbkqnr",
  "rnbqkbnr",
  "rbnqknbr",
  "rnqbknbr",
  "rnqnkbbr",
  "rbbnknqr",
  "rnbbknqr",
  "rnbnkbqr",
  "rbnnkqbr",
  "rnnbkqbr",
  "rnnqkbbr"
};

int main()
{
  int i, j, k;
  for(i=0; i<18; i++) for(j=0; j<18; j++) {
    char buf[40];
    for(k=0; k<8; k++) buf[k] = row[j][k] - 32;
    buf[8] = 0;
    printf("%s/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/%s w KQkq - 0 1\n", row[i], buf);
  }
}

Code: Select all

rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbqknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbbknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbqnknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rqnnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbkqnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnqknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqbknbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnqnkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbbnknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbbknqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnbnkbqr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rbnnkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnbkqbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBQKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBBKNNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBQNKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQNNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKQNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNQKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQBKNBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNQNKBBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBBNKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBBKNQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBNKBQR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RBNNKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNBKQBR w KQkq - 0 1
rnnqkbbr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNNQKBBR w KQkq - 0 1

[dkappe]

fens and pgns:

https://github.com/dkappe/leela-chess-w ... r/chess324

[KLc]

"Double Shuffle Chess: a fun variant against Fritz Online" by Albert Silver: https://en.chessbase.com/post/double-sh ... itz-online

[Chessqueen]

chess324 is a subset of DFRC, but has no positions clearly beyond the draw range, and doesn't require the special rules of castling. For some purposes there may be a need for more than the 648 game matches possible with chess324, so there may still be a reason to continue to explore DFRC, but for the vast majority of uses 648 games should be enough between two particular opponents.

So engines do not have to have FRC support to use these openings ? You start a standard chess tournament and the GUI and engines will understand ?

Yes, that's right! They are just alternate start positions, all standard rules of chess still apply. Of course they are not legal start positions (except one), since they cannot be created by a sequence of legal moves from the normal start position.

OK, I may try a round-robin tournament of a few top engines and see how it is. After I get a pgn of the 324 positions that is.

Lets us know which of the top 4 engines is leading at the moment, I Know that the rest of the other engines do not have a chance, or create a LIVE Website where we can check the actual standing

[Chessqueen]

chess324 is a subset of DFRC, but has no positions clearly beyond the draw range, and doesn't require the special rules of castling. For some purposes there may be a need for more than the 648 game matches possible with chess324, so there may still be a reason to continue to explore DFRC, but for the vast majority of uses 648 games should be enough between two particular opponents.

So engines do not have to have FRC support to use these openings ? You start a standard chess tournament and the GUI and engines will understand ?

Yes, that's right! They are just alternate start positions, all standard rules of chess still apply. Of course they are not legal start positions (except one), since they cannot be created by a sequence of legal moves from the normal start position.

OK, I may try a round-robin tournament of a few top engines and see how it is. After I get a pgn of the 324 positions that is.

Lets us know which of the top 4 engines is leading at the moment, I Know that the rest of the other engines do not have a chance, or create a LIVE Website where we can check the actual standing

Use this Link that was provided by dkappe https://github.com/dkappe/leela-chess-w ... r/chess324