M ANSARI wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:02 pm
But when Bobby Fischer in his career cannot get in the 90% and...
People keep repeating this!
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Chessbase function only begins AFTER LEAVING CURRENT THEORY, Right? So to "judge" or "compare" Fischer's games/stats 50-60 years later with this specific function is an abomination to the word 'analysis'. To do so...only proves, one thing... and (hint): it isn't what you are looking for.
Furthermore, people play a lot stronger at 'competency levels' these days and that is not even open to question.
Also, many of those old lines were...suspect or bad and would not be played today. That would just bring down Fischer's 'level' on its own.
There is more I could say, but...let me just end by saying that one can't judge Babe Ruth by the standard of play today in Baseball.
The metric Chessbase uses does not include opening theory or forced moves ... so the fact that Bobby Fischer did quite well does seem fascinating as it means he played lines that today are theory and so he would be at a disadvantage. I really don't know how exactly it works ... but it is a metric that compares players against each other rather than checking a single game and seeing if there is cheating information. It is IMPOSSIBLE to check one game and tell if someone is cheating ... even if it is a wild tactical game that humans are terrible at ... because that one day a person can just see all the tactical shots. But when you correlate many games together, and then use a metric that is the same for all players ... the information is certainly valid! Hans in 2022 played in the Turkish league and was scoring about 40% ... all of a sudden he is playing 90%+ games and even 100% games ???!!!! Hikaru started pulling out his best games and was curious how they would do ... then he looked up Caruana's game where he had probably the most impressive run of wins in Classical chess ... and Caruana's score was in the. Hikaru couldn't find any game of Magnus or himself or Caruana ... at close to 90% ever. Yet we have Hans Nieman that has over 23 games over 90% in just 2 years and over 10 at 100%. I mean of course you can argue that unless you catch the guy with a phone or with a gadget then he isn't cheating. But I don't agree with that. If chess is going to be viable it has to find a way to weed out cheaters. In atheletics they use blood and urine samples ... sometimes they keep the samples for years and many atheletes that were cleared intially were stripped of their medals when the testing technology caught up with their cheating systems. I think with chess it is the same ... you can't take blood samples or urine samples, but you should be able to use statistics and metrics that are updated to catch cheaters. The probability that Hans did not cheat is becoming astronomically small ... add to that the fact that he has cheated before and it becomes hard to act like there is nothing there. I think even the most sceptical people that intitially thought that Hans is not a cheater are really finding it difficult to ignore the facts. Most people tend to think that everyone is honest and give them the benefit of the doubt, but the world is full of people that are dishonest!
I suspect that percentage is connected not only to playing strength but also to playing style.
I suspect that the percentage of a player who is 100 or 200 elo stronger is not always better so I fo not get conclusions from the percentage of fischer.
You need to do the analysis for many players above 2600 of today to see if bigger percentgae is higher level and if 28xx is always stronger than a stable 2600-2650 who is not cheating.
Even I have games when I have no mistake in the endgame and kept a score of 0.00 for many moves
I am not sure what is going to be the percentage because maybe it is small because maybe my drawing moves are different than the drawing move that is suggested by the engines.
If it is not the case then maybe it is possible to increase the percentage if you continue to play obviously drawn endgames without offering a draw or accepting a draw.
Another ridiculous chapter in this cheating scandal.
So you see nothing unusual there with the Chessbase Let's Check results? You think it is all gossip and should not be mentioned? The games are out there, and the Chessbase server has crashed many times, apparently because thousands are using it to check all sort of games. If Hans cheated ... there will be a signature that is unusual. It is interesting that not many people knew about this Let's Check thing from Chessbase ... while quite a few knew how the Regan cheating detection method used by FIDE works. For me it looks like in Hans games there are points in the game where moves are played that make no sense by a player playing of such a high level ... thus a deliberate attempt at obfuscation so that they can pass the Regan algo or other anti cheating algos. Problem for a cheater though ... is that those games are already out there and it is not too difficult to run them en masse in a way that might make even obfuscation ... not good enough. Remember that Chessbase never really was at the forefront of chess cheating and the software mentioned really wasn't designed to catch cheaters. However Chess.com has put in an enormous effort to catch cheaters and I am sure that it is a lot more sophisticated than the Let's Check by Chessbase. Even Hans admitted that Chess.com has a very good anti cheating system as they caught him several times ... apparently other websites like Lichess were not as good. I would be interested if Chess.com will come out with something soon. I have a feeling they have something much more incriminating than Chessbase software. Most people assume that Chess.com system only works for online cheating ... but after seeing the Let's Check feature from Chessbase ... I have a feeling it works on OTB games as well. Anyway let's see what happens. Remember it took over 5 years for Lance Armstrong to get caught ... but eventually he did get caught. I am trying to think of how Hans would do as a guest on Oprah
I just looked at my profile and it seems I joined in 2006 !!! Holy crap I feel old. Anyway I do remember a similar discussion a while back and I did post this on another thread. Anyone here old enough to remember this heated thread ??
M ANSARI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:24 pm
I just looked at my profile and it seems I joined in 2006 !!! Holy crap I feel old. Anyway I do remember a similar discussion a while back and I did post this on another thread. Anyone here old enough to remember this heated thread ??
Years later and FIDE is still reactive, rather than proactive.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
Another ridiculous chapter in this cheating scandal.
So you see nothing unusual there with the Chessbase Let's Check results? You think it is all gossip and should not be mentioned? The games are out there, and the Chessbase server has crashed many times, apparently because thousands are using it to check all sort of games. If Hans cheated ... there will be a signature that is unusual. It is interesting that not many people knew about this Let's Check thing from Chessbase ... while quite a few knew how the Regan cheating detection method used by FIDE works. For me it looks like in Hans games there are points in the game where moves are played that make no sense by a player playing of such a high level ... thus a deliberate attempt at obfuscation so that they can pass the Regan algo or other anti cheating algos. Problem for a cheater though ... is that those games are already out there and it is not too difficult to run them en masse in a way that might make even obfuscation ... not good enough. Remember that Chessbase never really was at the forefront of chess cheating and the software mentioned really wasn't designed to catch cheaters. However Chess.com has put in an enormous effort to catch cheaters and I am sure that it is a lot more sophisticated than the Let's Check by Chessbase. Even Hans admitted that Chess.com has a very good anti cheating system as they caught him several times ... apparently other websites like Lichess were not as good. I would be interested if Chess.com will come out with something soon. I have a feeling they have something much more incriminating than Chessbase software. Most people assume that Chess.com system only works for online cheating ... but after seeing the Let's Check feature from Chessbase ... I have a feeling it works on OTB games as well. Anyway let's see what happens. Remember it took over 5 years for Lance Armstrong to get caught ... but eventually he did get caught. I am trying to think of how Hans would do as a guest on Oprah
There’s apparently a quite long and tactical Kasparov win that has a 100% match. Why? High profile game, high profile players, lots of users running their engines on it.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
Thomas Lagershausen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:54 am
Here is a adult opnion from an insider of professional chess.
I love this guy.
+1
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
Thomas Lagershausen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:54 am
Here is a adult opnion from an insider of professional chess.
I love this guy.
+1
"First of all, the train's dying - lets go people!"
What? Is he referring to the crawler at the bottom...pulling all the...I guess donations people are sending him?
SO reminds me of the late 'great' Dr. Gene Scott.
BOY would he get angry when the 'incoming' started to slow down.
Thomas Lagershausen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:54 am
Here is a adult opnion from an insider of professional chess.
I love this guy.
+1
I really do NOT believe that if a player rated around the same rating as GM Hans by getting only 1 or 2 moves from a top engine that it is sufficient to beat Carlsen, therefore he either has a sophisticated device that can give him several winning moves or he really has advanced from 2688+ to over 2770 during the Covi19 as he mentioned that he lived inside of a shoebox just learning and improving his chess. Ass I recall reading in Chessbase india there has been a few teenagers that their rating skyrocketed by at least 130 rating points during the Covi-19 Era such as GM Gukesh GM Arjun and GM Pragg to mention a few, therefore it is NOT only GM Hans. Back in March 2021 during the peak season of Covi-19 GM Hans was only rated 2526 https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2093596/chart
Thomas Lagershausen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:54 am
Here is a adult opnion from an insider of professional chess.
I love this guy.
+1
"First of all, the train's dying - lets go people!"
What? Is he referring to the crawler at the bottom...pulling all the...I guess donations people are sending him?
SO reminds me of the late 'great' Dr. Gene Scott.
BOY would he get angry when the 'incoming' started to slow down.
Oh...and then towards the end he says "we make money off it" because "you guys" take yourself too seriously. Priceless...
