Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann sues champion Magnus Carlsen, others for $100 million over cheating claim

[CornfedForever]

If that is not very clear or more direct, then I don't know what is.

The point is, Magnus said "he believes Niemann cheated more than he admitted" what Chess.com confirms. Regarding OTB, Magnus only talks about his impressions. The justice system in my country won't convict someone for his believes or impressions. So the only question is, how will this be judged in the U.S.

I think it will backfire for Niemann. It is easy to destroy his credibility because of his cheating past. He still says he didn't cheat lately, but chess.com has some good evidence for that, at least for online cheating in tournaments with price money.

Beside that, Magnus just has to proof, that the rumors where there before the Sinquefield Cup, so he just repeated something several others say since years. That can't be defamation de jure.

Well...if someone continues to 'insinuate' they believe you are a pedophile in public/print (but don't actually say it...maybe they intentionally mispell the word) and that leads to you being unable to get a job of your choice...or contracts being pulled...invites being rescinded, etc, etc. due to their willful, public implications... I would hope for your sake that this 'justice system' in your country would be more attuned to what is actually going on.

Magnus has clearly tied Hans past online cheating with OTB play when he says "His over the board progress has been unusual, and throughout our game in the Singuefield Cup I had the impression he wasn't tense or even fully concentrating on the game in crucial positions, while outplaying me as black in a way I think only a handful of players can do. This game contributed to changing my persepective"

So...change a few things round...throw in a word like pedophile instead of cheating and tell me what this justice system in your country should say if you went to them with a complaint.

[purechess]

Good to see that Hans fights back .

[mclane]

Are you sure Biden won fair in the election? Seems millions of deceased American's voted for him, not to mentions many irregularities with the voting machines as well.. 81 mill voters which made him the most popular US president, even more popular than Obama.. I have a hard time believing that 81 million Americans cast their vote for that train wreck called Biden.

PS: I think you should watch the documentary by Danish D'Sousa called 2000 Mules

It was not Biden who manipulated us elections but trump and putin.

[lkaufman]

So...change a few things round...throw in a word like pedophile instead of cheating and tell me what this justice system in your country should say if you went to them with a complaint.

It doesn't make a difference. And I think this is also true for the U.S. https://www.newsweek.com/trump-shares-p ... le-1532002

Sorry, try again...

Simple defamation law alone treats public figures (Trump/Biden) different than private individuals (Hans)...like it or not. Public officials have to show actual 'malice'' in such a things - as opposed to private citizens. Hans, as the latter, gets a higher level of protection...and only need to prove the defendant was negligent in making the defamatory statement.

To me it depends on if Magnus was tying past online cheating (of a minor?) with current OTB play. He clearly seems to be doing so.

Beyond that...the claim did not prevent Biden from beating Trump head-to-head in an election and winning.
Hans has already been materially affected and will continue to be as Carlsen says he refuses to play in a tournament in which Hans would participate.

Whether OTB chess and online chess should be considered separate sports or the same one seems to me to be a question to be decided by players, organizers, sponsors, and chess organizations, not by courts. Online cheating does not imply OTB cheating, but it does make others rightfully more suspicious of the online cheater. If organizers/sponsors of OTB chess want to ban someone for online chess cheating, or even for say poker cheating or for a fraud or perjury conviction because they would be more worried about potential cheating, that seems reasonable to me. We already ban players from tournaments simply for having too high a rating (i.e. "under 2200" events), or the wrong gender (men can't play in the U.S. Women's championship), so banning for having actually done something wrong, even if a bit unrelated, seems much easier to justify. Pretty much the only restriction that would get an organizer in trouble would be a racial/religious one. Carlsen would have no problem with taking the position that anyone who has cheated online should be barred from OTB play, that is purely a matter of opinion. Claiming that someone actually did cheat in an OTB game would need to be backed up though.

[Alexander Schmidt]

To me it depends on if Magnus was tying past online cheating (of a minor?) with current OTB play. He clearly seems to be doing so.

Again, it's not important what you read between the lines. Seriously, read it again. Magnus didn't say Niemann cheated OTB, he talked about his impressions OTB, and why he don't want to play people who cheated in the past.

Hans has already been materially affected and will continue to be as Carlsen says he refuses to play in a tournament in which Hans would participate.

That's just ridiculous. It's Magnus' decision who he want to play and who not.

[CornfedForever]

sions OTB, and why he don't want to play people who cheated in the past.

Hans has already been materially affected and will continue to be as Carlsen says he refuses to play in a tournament in which Hans would participate.

That's just ridiculous. It's Magnus' decision who he want to play and who not.

To you maybe...but Magnus can tell a court how he lives on an island all to himself and his actions do not affect others. We will see if they believe it...but I suspect he will be signing a check over to Hans before that ever happens.

[mclane]

This all sounds like something happening somewhere in china.
Niemann is always quoted today with sex toys and cheating in chess.

No court will give him money.
He himself said he cheated . Chess com found out he cheated in 100 online games.

Not a few times because he was young. 100 games !!! That is almost always.



Of course this will backfire on him.
The court will find out he can be called cheater.

[syzygy]

It started when Carlsen later implicitly stated "He has cheated, and cheated more" or something along the line.

He should have simply left it with the cryptic tweet alone and went the Vasik Rajilich- mode of keeping quiet the entire time. That cryptic tweet itself exploded throughout the media far more than his later accusation. Niemann wouldn't have any chance to do anything with just that tweet about some random footballer.

In my view it clearly started with the withdrawal plus not-so-cryptic tweet.

The later statement that Hans had cheated and had cheated more often than publicly already known was factually correct.

To win, Niemann has to:
1. prove that some statement was false
2. prove that Carlsen (or Nakamura or chess.com) knew it was false or had no reason to believe it was true
3. prove that this statement resulted in the damage he claims.

The admitted/proven cheating seems already sufficient to cause most of the damage. Carlsen is fully in his rights not to wish to play against someone with such a track record. Just like e.g. Keymer is in his rights not to wish to play Niemann.

[syzygy]

Nakamura: not guilty
Chess.com: not guilty
Magnus Carlsen: guilty of defamation.

Did Magnus somewhere say, that Niemann definitely cheated OTB? Talking about his "impression" isn't defamation but his freedom of expression as I understand it. But in the U.S. system of justice everything is possible I guess...

As far as I know, defamation is harded to prove in the US than in most other countries.

And indeed merely talking about your impression is not defamation.

[supersharp77]

So...change a few things round...throw in a word like pedophile instead of cheating and tell me what this justice system in your country should say if you went to them with a complaint.

It doesn't make a difference. And I think this is also true for the U.S. https://www.newsweek.com/trump-shares-p ... le-1532002

Sorry, try again...

Simple defamation law alone treats public figures (Trump/Biden) different than private individuals (Hans)...like it or not. Public officials have to show actual 'malice'' in such a things - as opposed to private citizens. Hans, as the latter, gets a higher level of protection...and only need to prove the defendant was negligent in making the defamatory statement.

To me it depends on if Magnus was tying past online cheating (of a minor?) with current OTB play. He clearly seems to be doing so.

Beyond that...the claim did not prevent Biden from beating Trump head-to-head in an election and winning.
Hans has already been materially affected and will continue to be as Carlsen says he refuses to play in a tournament in which Hans would participate.

Interesting Idea...But Is a Top Ranked USA/World Grandmaster a "Private Individual or A Public Figure?" If They are playing and Streaming with a Huge Public Following Daily are They Still "Private Persons?" I would Think Hikaru & Magnus Carlsen & Caruana & Niemann are Probably "Public Figures" Perhaps?