Eduard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:13 am
Now some programmers are joining forces to beat Stockfish. What is the goal? The goal can actually only be to bring out a new commercial engine.
The new group of programmers declares that their own engines have failed. Now they must join forces to achieve goals. I don't think this is for the good of the community. It's about marketing and honor. Otherwise you could join the Stockfish team to help. It would certainly not be uninteresting to bring in ideas for the SF network. The SF NNUE is getting bigger and bigger, it doesn't get much better. At SF 16, the network had a 1536 dimension, but just 2 days later the network was increased to 2048, and 2560 has been experimented with for a few days. I also tested the new huge network. Unfortunately it's not progress. For many months now, the new master NNUE has only come from Linrock. And it doesn't get much better.
Developers joining forces to try to beat Stockfish is great in my opinion. What I deeply dislike is that the engine that will come out of this will most likely be close source. And since the goal of the devs and chess.com is to beat SF I highly doubt they will try to implement new working ideas on Stockfish. They might try to improve weaker engines, but helping out its major competitor is probably out of the question.
Stockfish is the only thing that unites all chess websites, its easy to use, available for all platforms, free, open source and currently the strongest so they all can and do use it. With Torch only chess.com has the power to decide what to do with it like make it only available for premium users, charge for it or not even make it available for download at all.
Eduard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:13 am
Now some programmers are joining forces to beat Stockfish. What is the goal? The goal can actually only be to bring out a new commercial engine.
The new group of programmers declares that their own engines have failed. Now they must join forces to achieve goals. I don't think this is for the good of the community. It's about marketing and honor. Otherwise you could join the Stockfish team to help. It would certainly not be uninteresting to bring in ideas for the SF network. The SF NNUE is getting bigger and bigger, it doesn't get much better. At SF 16, the network had a 1536 dimension, but just 2 days later the network was increased to 2048, and 2560 has been experimented with for a few days. I also tested the new huge network. Unfortunately it's not progress. For many months now, the new master NNUE has only come from Linrock. And it doesn't get much better.
Developers joining forces to try to beat Stockfish is great in my opinion. What I deeply dislike is that the engine that will come out of this will most likely be close source. And since the goal of the devs and chess.com is to beat SF I highly doubt they will try to implement new working ideas on Stockfish. They might try to improve weaker engines, but helping out its major competitor is probably out of the question.
Stockfish is the only thing that unites all chess websites, its easy to use, available for all platforms, free, open source and currently the strongest so they all can and do use it. With Torch only chess.com has the power to decide what to do with it like make it only available for premium users, charge for it or not even make it available for download at all.
I cannot see them making it available for download at all, and frankly, the commercial model makes a lot of sense and they should make millions.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."
When this torch comes out, I hope fans will appreciate even more that Stockfish is free and even open source. So far, Stockfish only had one opponent: its own master version. All resources are pooled to create a new SF Master version. Then maybe the SF team should use all of those resources to defeat Torch. Stockfish is trained every day (NNUE nets) and then tested with a large community. It will therefore not be easy for the new engine to get past Stockfish.
Last edited by Eduard on Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Eduard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:13 am
N Now they must join forces to achieve goals. I don't think this is for the good of the community. It's about marketing and honor. Otherwise you could join the Stockfish team to help.
Competition spurs innovation...you should applaud that.
Why would you be against it...unless maybe you are one of those guys who take SF and 'tweak' and now fear someone else is going to be able to beat you pushing around engines vs other engines (?).
Eduard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:13 am
Now some programmers are joining forces to beat Stockfish. What is the goal? The goal can actually only be to bring out a new commercial engine.
The new group of programmers declares that their own engines have failed. Now they must join forces to achieve goals. I don't think this is for the good of the community. It's about marketing and honor. Otherwise you could join the Stockfish team to help. It would certainly not be uninteresting to bring in ideas for the SF network. The SF NNUE is getting bigger and bigger, it doesn't get much better. At SF 16, the network had a 1536 dimension, but just 2 days later the network was increased to 2048, and 2560 has been experimented with for a few days. I also tested the new huge network. Unfortunately it's not progress. For many months now, the new master NNUE has only come from Linrock. And it doesn't get much better.
Developers joining forces to try to beat Stockfish is great in my opinion. What I deeply dislike is that the engine that will come out of this will most likely be close source. And since the goal of the devs and chess.com is to beat SF I highly doubt they will try to implement new working ideas on Stockfish. They might try to improve weaker engines, but helping out its major competitor is probably out of the question.
Stockfish is the only thing that unites all chess websites, its easy to use, available for all platforms, free, open source and currently the strongest so they all can and do use it. With Torch only chess.com has the power to decide what to do with it like make it only available for premium users, charge for it or not even make it available for download at all.
I was wondering if all the programmers working on this project can somehow let each of their individual chess engines using multiple computers, each with its own FPGA acting as a chess coprocessor can somehow select the best move and with another dedicated subroutine it can determine which of all those moves sent by individual chess engines is the best.
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:45 pmI was wondering if all the programmers working on this project can somehow let each of their individual chess engines using multiple computers, each with its own FPGA acting as a chess coprocessor can somehow select the best move and with another dedicated subroutine it can determine which of all those moves sent by individual chess engines is the best.
They could. They could create a dedicated chess computer. They could create an iOS app. They could make a chess app for smart fridges. They could decide to band together and use their skills to create a stock-trading company. They could do loads of things, but that's not what we're talking about. Please stay (vaguely) on topic.
Eduard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:37 pm
It will therefore not be easy for the new engine to get past Stockfish.
Torch has the advantage of being close source, chess.com is donating hardware to its development (something they never did for Stockfish or any other engine as far as I know) and top-notch developers that now won't contribute to Stockfish.
Wouldn't surprise me if influencers like Gotham and Hikaru start using Torch (when its weaker) just because chess.com "asked them" to advertise it.
Eduard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:37 pm
It will therefore not be easy for the new engine to get past Stockfish.
Torch has the advantage of being close source, chess.com is donating hardware to its development (something they never did for Stockfish or any other engine as far as I know) and top-notch developers that now won't contribute to Stockfish.
Wouldn't surprise me if influencers like Gotham and Hikaru start using Torch (when its weaker) just because chess.com "asked them" to advertise it.
Chess.com did donate hardware for Komodo Dragon development as part of our partnership from 2018 thru 2022. They also made some of their employees available to help us out as needed on a part-time basis, notably Dmitry Pervov who wrote the NNUE code we used.
Eduard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:37 pm
It will therefore not be easy for the new engine to get past Stockfish.
Torch has the advantage of being close source, chess.com is donating hardware to its development (something they never did for Stockfish or any other engine as far as I know) and top-notch developers that now won't contribute to Stockfish.
Wouldn't surprise me if influencers like Gotham and Hikaru start using Torch (when its weaker) just because chess.com "asked them" to advertise it.
Chess.com did donate hardware for Komodo Dragon development as part of our partnership from 2018 thru 2022. They also made some of their employees available to help us out as needed on a part-time basis, notably Dmitry Pervov who wrote the NNUE code we used.
How exactly Torch select the best move? Am I in the right track ? I was wondering if all the programmers working on this project can somehow let each of their individual chess engines using multiple computers, each with its own FPGA acting as a chess coprocessor can somehow select the best move and with another dedicated subroutine it can determine which of all those moves sent by individual chess engines is the best.
lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:09 pm
Chess.com did donate hardware for Komodo Dragon development as part of our partnership from 2018 thru 2022. They also made some of their employees available to help us out as needed on a part-time basis, notably Dmitry Pervov who wrote the NNUE code we used.
What will become of komodo- Dragon, Larry?
Komodochess.com site doesn't allow log in anymore, does it?
