Interesting podcast with Kramnik and Caruana about rampant online cheating on Chess.com

[CornfedForever]

I happened upon this video today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYgUp9AGo5k

Thanks. I watched it with interest.

Regarding his game with Hans, it sure sounds for all the world that the 'Legend of Hans' has taken up residence 'rent free' in Kramnik's head! That...and nothing more.

Game 2 - This appears to be some CYA going on. He decided he didn't want to play...and does THAT? I'm sure he knows where the 'Resigns' button is.

Game 1 -
There are more dog whistles here than you will find at a Trump stump speech. Taking a cure from another former World Champion he is saying that Hans had to be cheating...without saying it.

There are so many things I could cite...but will limit myself to this observation: It's this first game he apparently has ever played against Hans, every couple of moves he is fretting (during the actual game it seems) about the amount of time Hans has taken...or has not...or why this or that move was played and some mysterious "feeling" that kept growing as the game went on. Nevermind that Between moves 33 and 42 the chess.com algorithm gives 5 of Kramnik's 10 moves a "?" (mistake). Perhaps that was just the symbol of "rent" money exchanging hands?.

He often sites the wrong amount of time taken (I've just gone thru the actual time stamps on chess.com). But the only specific move I'll comment on is one of the earlier moves that made no sense to him: 15...Bd7. He says Hans took 5 sec (it was only 3) and that it's the only move because any other retreat would make no sense. He says this...apparently unaware that none other than the current World Champion Ding Liren played 15...Bh7 against Karjakin in a 2020 tournament which was, well, a bit slower than a 3/0 online blitz game where you play press your time advantage and even pre-move - something Kramnik says in another video that he does not do.

Everyone should recognize the folly of analyzing blitz games...and especially drawing conclusions from 1. Seek and you will always find Vlad.

[CornfedForever]

As a PS, Hans must really be feeling PO'd...he just spanked Kramnik (whom he out ranks by 30-40 points) in BOTH their games in the Champions Chess Tour AI Cup 2023.

More Cheatfinder General video's to come? (it's a Vincent Price movie reference...The Witchfinder General)

[towforce]

...it's a Vincent Price movie reference...The Witchfinder General)

Good film - but the Witchfinder General was actually a real person - link!

[CornfedForever]

PSS....
It looks like Kramnik lost to some lowly FM in the tournament today. Perhaps we will see a special video for that as well.
Enough fun for today....need to mow the lawn.

[CornfedForever]

...it's a Vincent Price movie reference...The Witchfinder General)

Good film - but the Witchfinder General was actually a real person - link!

Yes, got a blu-ray of...think it's 4 Price films and that is one..nice countryside shots.
Sadly, I think The Cheatfinder General is a real person too...

[towforce]

Sadly, I think The Cheatfinder General is a real person too...

OK - but remember that the Witchfinder General's reputation was absolutely terrible after his death!

[CornfedForever]

PSS....
It looks like Kramnik lost to some lowly FM in the tournament today. Perhaps we will see a special video for that as well.
Enough fun for today....need to mow the lawn.

and a PSSS...

I noticed at the beginning of his Title Tuesday stream today, Hikaru basically said that Kramnik had some valid points (should be two cameras on players in events like Titled Tuesday...like exists in the bigger chess.com/other evens)... but that he was definitely going over the deep end on the whole thing...particularly concerning specific players.

I then notice this evening that Kramnik has said "Goodbye to chess.com" because of all the obvious cheaters and that he will "continue to do his best to save chess of this disease'"

[M ANSARI]

It is incredible how some of you just dismiss cheating online or OTB for that matter. This is especially troubling as this is a computer forum with many of the members having a huge effect on how powerful chess computers are today. If you watched for example yesterday's match between Hikaru and MVL ... on many occasions the commentators (of which one is a very strong GM) have really no idea there is a blunder until they see a huge change in the evaluation bar. Once they know there is a tactic ... they can quickly calculate it. So the difference between MVL winning and losing yesterday ... could have been by just giving a hint to MVL that a move is a blunder and he will immediately spot it. That is all that is needed. Of course that is the most simplest of cheating and very unsophisticated ... and would give a 2700 GM a good 200 or more ELO. Now when you go to the more sophisticated cheating where the player has a full comprehensive evaluation of several possible engine moves ... it becomes much more serious ... as even a 2000 ELO player can crush Hikaru or MC by simply choosing to steer the game into a very tactical line and eventually the GM will make an obvious tactical error that anyone could claim they would have spotted after the fact. He could still "mask" his cheating by playing "non losing" moves or moves that steer the game into unlear waters ... It really is a serious thing that can destroy chess ... and a solution needs to be found to stop that.

By the way, Kramnik makes some extremely valid points and has questions .... I also think that more than 20% of the online players cheat at least sometimes when they feel they feel they have a reason to. Some players seem to become tactical geniuses all of a sudden ... and play way above their level ... especially when facing the very top GMs. I remember watching a Brazilian player on Chess.com called "Supi" ... and he totally crushed Magnus Carlsen with a tactical masterpiece which ended in a queen sac. Even MC was impressed and ended up clapping for him. On the rematch game ... he again totally outplayed MC but somehow MC managed to outblitz him the time scramble ... and after MC states "I don't want to play this guy anymore". I then noticed the guy again when he beat Hikaru 4 x in a row in blitz. After looking back and analyzing the games ... I really started feeling that this guy is cheating. His play in time scrambles was way below what it should be ... the time spent on some moves ... just not normal ... but again ... you can't prove the guy is cheating as he doesn't always play the first or second engine line. Watch these games and let me know what you think ... is this the play of an unbelievably talented tactical genius ... or do you think he is using engine help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7Olie-WZc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxkVoEEC94Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65R-QwU2rk0

One more bit of data ... GM Supi is rated 2500 in OTB Blitz ... and 2570 in std chess.

[CornfedForever]

Funny thing: The commentators at the current Levitov Chess Week 2023 tournament said Kramnik “Invited Hans to play” at that tournament (OTB). They noted that Hans could not as he is playing in the World Junior’s in Mexico. It’s also not clear that Kramnik has the authority to ‘invite’ anyone to this small, closed tourney…don’t think he is the organizer.

For his part, Hans offered publicly to PAY Kramink to coach him for a bit so that he could see firsthand just how he arrives at the decisions he does at the board.

I rather doubt Kramnik would accept the paid offer. He has backed himself into a corner and isn't likely to put himself in a position to perhaps have to admit he was ‘wrong’ regarding his losses to Hans.

[M ANSARI]

There is no doubt that Hans is being outed for cheating sometimes ... when he is not cheating. But really ... can you blame his opponents? I mean he was a serial cheater and a lot of his meteoric progress is highly unusual. There is no doubt he is a strong GM ... but some of the games he plays seem to be way above the level of even Magnus, Hikaru and Caruana (Caruana's words not mine!). Yet in some games he plays very poorly. If you saw Kramnik's reasoning with his analysis of other games that Hans has played ... it is blatantly obvious that Hans does not have the intuition of a super GM (and I consider Kramnik's intuition as super GM) or at least in games where he plays know players ... he seems to play at a different level. I have no doubt that Hans still cheats in some of his online games and it will be only a matter of time before he gets banned again. I have also no doubt that Hans used some method to cheat OTB for some time. Maybe now it is much more difficult to cheat OTB as there are much more rigorous anti cheating schemes used ... but I don't see it as impossible technically. Online cheating though ... is still extremely easy to do.