Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Father
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
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Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 7:59 am
Uri Blass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:26 am I could win yesterday in my only try against LeelaQueenForKnight
Here is the game

https://lichess.org/PzKxEehQ

Moshe Nahmias(fide rating 1572) had less luck in that time control and lost 3 games(at least he could win against the queen odds version of leela with the white pieces(did not try with black)
That's actually an accomplishment for you. It is rather unusual for anyone under LiChess 2200 to win at queen for knight, esoecially with the engine playing White. Performance rating is in the ballpark of 2400 as White I think. The knight-odds trained bot plays queen for knight even better than the current queen for knight bot.
Thank you Uri for providing us with this wonderful game that you played against LeelaQueenForKnight. Your move 35....Txdt left me amazed. The whole strategic line of simplification that you applied against the dangerous enemy, where you reaped the fruits of your intelligent battle in the beautiful: 63....Q5g5# which leads to your coronation as a human being in the proof of your victory against the cold entity. Well done Uri. Congratulations. !! Note. Uri, in the last three days, I have tested the already more dangerous entity called "LeelaKnightOdds"... The robot I feel is evolving becoming stronger, but we as human beings also clearly feel that we are becoming stronger facing the computer. It took me a little over 100 games this time to achieve my first draw in the last three days, October 17, 18 and 19, 2024. My feeling in the process of psychoanalytic understanding of the computer is that it is in trouble since I have detected the fissures through which one enters the dens and burrows of the cybernetic thought of the entity. Of course, the entity has Father between its eyebrows, however, I learn faster from the entity at the speed that it, the entity, can learn from me. Again. Thanks Uri.

[Event "Casual blitz game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/H5ndv5I0"]
[Date "2024.10.19"]
[White "LeelaKnightOdds"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.10.19"]
[UTCTime "05:22:06"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2082"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. Nc3 d5 2. d4 e6 3. Bf4 c6 4. e4 dxe4 5. Nxe4 Nf6 6. Nxf6+ Qxf6 7. Be5 Qd8 8. Qd3 Nd7 9. Bg3 Nf6 10. O-O-O Bd6 11. Kb1 Qc7 12. Bh4 Bd7 13. Qf3 Be7 14. Bg3 Bd6 15. Bh4 Be7 16. Bg3 Bd6 17. Bh4 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
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Father
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Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
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Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Uri Blass wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 12:45 am after additional losses in game 4 and game 5 I got a draw in game 6
Of course I knew that lc0 does not know my rating and is happy with a draw but it was relatively my best game with knight odds.

Maybe later I will try to win with a winning position but I am afraid I need more time for it to have practical chances and 5+3 is not enough.

https://lichess.org/0QdPn8LhnVov
Uri... I was meditating a little on the "Entity." I have considered that to defeat the "Entity" it is necessary to slap it in the face, make it angry, and lose all fear and respect for it. Both the time and power of the "Entity" are limited. Today only 59 games were enough for me to snatch two draws. But best of all, the computer has begun to feel afraid and tired. "LeelaKnighOdds" is confused, the computer does not expect such perseverance from the human ribal. The "Entity is retreating." ... is afraid... I show the entity my cards without fear, it is not necessary to be hidden, just face it and that's it. Today I am going to choose three games and I dedicate them to Mr. Uri Blass just as I dedicate them to Mr. Larry Kaufman. "The Entity is the stone", we humans are the drops of water, which over time give shape to the rocks.

https://lichess.org/ww7W6yU9/black


https://lichess.org/IMRUkkzZ/black





https://lichess.org/JnDIqSgN/black

Note. The battle of men against chess computers represents a human right. In its development and implementation, the quadrilateral is open to all human beings, all people, that is, "all individuals of the human species, whatever their age, sex, race or condition." The battles of the Neoents are not our battle of people, we are humans and human people, those responsible for the fight of our fight to surpass ourselves in the fight against machines and AI, the Transhumanstournaments, they are not our tournaments
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
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Father
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 3:56 am
Uri Blass wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 12:45 am after additional losses in game 4 and game 5 I got a draw in game 6
Of course I knew that lc0 does not know my rating and is happy with a draw but it was relatively my best game with knight odds.

Maybe later I will try to win with a winning position but I am afraid I need more time for it to have practical chances and 5+3 is not enough.

https://lichess.org/0QdPn8LhnVov
The results in Rapid games (so slower than your games) since the Sep 28 upgrade, against players rated over 2500 only, are 54 wins for the bot, 5 draws, and ZERO losses. Performance rating in Rapid about 3060. No one over 1800 has won a single game of Rapid since the upgrade. Some players rated below that or unrated have "wins", but they invariably show 98 or 99% accuracy per Stockfish which is extremely implausible for players below 1800 Rapid on Lichess, so given that no one above 1800 has won I would assume these were all cheaters using Stockfish. It seems that only low rated and especially unrated players cheat, the higher rated ones have presumably played a lot without getting banned and would have more to lose by being banned, with nothing to gain since the games are unrated. But weak players apparently want to "brag" about "beating" a bot, even at knight odds and using an engine!!
Mr. Larry Kaufman, good morning. At the beginning of the day, today, one of my first motivations on a sunny day was to enjoy some games against LeelaKnightOdds robot. Today I face the silicon soldier with three tools in my being: 1- Absence of fear; 2- Flexible thinking; 3- Will and self-confidence. In this way I used a combination of normal chess and anti-machine elements. I felt that somehow the machine backed away and the machine expressed a feeling of surprise... I feel so sorry when I feel the chess algorithms, that the anxieties of the programmers are transmitted to their inventions. Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman for allowing me to play and understand the algorithmic profile of the wonderful robots.

https://lichess.org/GB3eZdM9/black





https://lichess.org/QqHuizA7/blac
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
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Father
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2024 4:06 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 3:56 am
Uri Blass wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 12:45 am after additional losses in game 4 and game 5 I got a draw in game 6
Of course I knew that lc0 does not know my rating and is happy with a draw but it was relatively my best game with knight odds.



Maybe later I will try to win with a winning position but I am afraid I need more time for it to have practical chances and 5+3 is not enough.

https://lichess.org/0QdPn8LhnVov
The results in Rapid games (so slower than your games) since the Sep 28 upgrade, against players rated over 2500 only, are 54 wins for the bot, 5 draws, and ZERO losses. Performance rating in Rapid about 3060. No one over 1800 has won a single game of Rapid since the upgrade. Some players rated below that or unrated have "wins", but they invariably show 98 or 99% accuracy per Stockfish which is extremely implausible for players below 1800 Rapid on Lichess, so given that no one above 1800 has won I would assume these were all cheaters using Stockfish. It seems that only low rated and especially unrated players cheat, the higher rated ones have presumably played a lot without getting banned and would have more to lose by being banned, with nothing to gain since the games are unrated. But weak players apparently want to "brag" about "beating" a bot, even at knight odds and using an engine!!
Mr. Larry Kaufman, good morning. At the beginning of the day, today, one of my first motivations on a sunny day was to enjoy some games against LeelaKnightOdds robot. Today I face the silicon soldier with three tools in my being: 1- Absence of fear; 2- Flexible thinking; 3- Will and self-confidence. In this way I used a combination of normal chess and anti-machine elements. I felt that somehow the machine backed away and the machine expressed a feeling of surprise... I feel so sorry when I feel the chess algorithms, that the anxieties of the programmers are transmitted to their inventions. Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman for allowing me to play and understand the algorithmic profile of the wonderful robots.

https://lichess.org/GB3eZdM9/black





https://lichess.org/QqHuizA7/blac
wonder who will win in the fight or battle between man and machine, developed in a long-term pulse, where the constancy and perseverance of the algorithm, which is the mirror image of its human programmer, face off against the stubbornness of the human. The computer is a rock, I, alone, am a drop of water that evaporates when the sun rises to the sky...

I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
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Father
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 5:01 pm
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:47 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:47 am
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:57 am Mr. Larry Kaufman.
This performance in the fight of man against machine with odds is really wonderful.
I consider that in man-machine duels with odds, that in some way, there are real probabilities on the part of the human being to acquire progress in shortening the distances.
If at any time you wish or consider that it is useful for you to participate in man-versus-machine duels, I would be attentive to an invitation, in exchange for the sole pleasure of playing chess, without a prize of any kind.
Thank you. Your games have been helpful in highlighting the issue of allowing early repetition draws, we're working on ways to reduce them. If you want to know what I would consider most useful, I would like to see you play games with LeelaQueenForKnight, at whatever time limit allows you to win a decent percentage of the games. It's most helpful when players pick a handicap that is a bit difficult for them but where the win/loss ratio is not too one-sided. My guess is that you'll need a fairly slow blitz or even Rapid TC to do this; it's WAY harder than actual queen odds, though easier for the human than rook odds.
...excellent odds!! I have stated, ( 20 games ) I believe that as human beings playing against odds, we have the possibility of learning more about the odds and thus increase the probability of improving the results... I have a question; What could be the estimated elo of this odds? Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman.
In LiChess blitz games that bot performs around 2400 Lichess level, which is considered to be equivalent to 2235 FIDE rating. Of course it would be lower at longer time controls, but you are playing blitz, so the above is appropriate for you.

1.733 / 5.000
Mr. Larry Kaufman. Just a few minutes ago, I finished my first match against "LeelaQueenOdds". I played ten matches, and the final result was the following: 6 points to the computer, 4 points to me. The computer won 5 matches against me, I won 3 matches against the computer, and there were two draws. I mistakenly believed that it would be a simple matter to beat the computer. But nothing could be further from the truth. I played the games with a 3-minute time control. The computer knocked me out four times in a row... I went into a deep shock. I was then forced to make a quick change of strategy, using all my experience. A round of only ten matches, and I was defeated four times. !! I asked myself what to do against this beast, who without legs and without one of its hands was annihilating me!! So, game number five was my first win, game number six a draw, game number seven my second win, game number eight a draw, game number nine represented the tragedy of my fifth loss, and game number ten represented my third win. If we divide the tournament into two stages, game number one to game number four shows a computer that takes me by surprise. And game number four to game ten, a modification of my flexible thinking, which gives a favorable result in my favor of four against two. But... I lost. Nothing to say, and instead, a lot to thank the creators of this ODDS for. Without a doubt, I recommend this odds. The reason is simple... it allows us to play chess, to improve ourselves, and it gives us the joy of playing against someone better than the human world champion, who gives us the opportunity without his queen, to play chess. Thank you.
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
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Father
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:29 am
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 5:01 pm
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:47 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:47 am
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:57 am Mr. Larry Kaufman.
This performance in the fight of man against machine with odds is really wonderful.
I consider that in man-machine duels with odds, that in some way, there are real probabilities on the part of the human being to acquire progress in shortening the distances.
If at any time you wish or consider that it is useful for you to participate in man-versus-machine duels, I would be attentive to an invitation, in exchange for the sole pleasure of playing chess, without a prize of any kind.
Thank you. Your games have been helpful in highlighting the issue of allowing early repetition draws, we're working on ways to reduce them. If you want to know what I would consider most useful, I would like to see you play games with LeelaQueenForKnight, at whatever time limit allows you to win a decent percentage of the games. It's most helpful when players pick a handicap that is a bit difficult for them but where the win/loss ratio is not too one-sided. My guess is that you'll need a fairly slow blitz or even Rapid TC to do this; it's WAY harder than actual queen odds, though easier for the human than rook odds.
...excellent odds!! I have stated, ( 20 games ) I believe that as human beings playing against odds, we have the possibility of learning more about the odds and thus increase the probability of improving the results... I have a question; What could be the estimated elo of this odds? Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman.
In LiChess blitz games that bot performs around 2400 Lichess level, which is considered to be equivalent to 2235 FIDE rating. Of course it would be lower at longer time controls, but you are playing blitz, so the above is appropriate for you.

1.733 / 5.000
Mr. Larry Kaufman. Just a few minutes ago, I finished my first match against "LeelaQueenOdds". I played ten matches, and the final result was the following: 6 points to the computer, 4 points to me. The computer won 5 matches against me, I won 3 matches against the computer, and there were two draws. I mistakenly believed that it would be a simple matter to beat the computer. But nothing could be further from the truth. I played the games with a 3-minute time control. The computer knocked me out four times in a row... I went into a deep shock. I was then forced to make a quick change of strategy, using all my experience. A round of only ten matches, and I was defeated four times. !! I asked myself what to do against this beast, who without legs and without one of its hands was annihilating me!! So, game number five was my first win, game number six a draw, game number seven my second win, game number eight a draw, game number nine represented the tragedy of my fifth loss, and game number ten represented my third win. If we divide the tournament into two stages, game number one to game number four shows a computer that takes me by surprise. And game number four to game ten, a modification of my flexible thinking, which gives a favorable result in my favor of four against two. But... I lost. Nothing to say, and instead, a lot to thank the creators of this ODDS for. Without a doubt, I recommend this odds. The reason is simple... it allows us to play chess, to improve ourselves, and it gives us the joy of playing against someone better than the human world champion, who gives us the opportunity without his queen, to play chess. Thank you.
...The sun that gives us light and life rises to the heavens. Today I have understood that we can be better, move forward, progress and evolve as human beings. Yesterday ending the day at night I lost 6-4. Today at the beginning of the day I beat the computer 7-3. I have tamed the furious horse, now it is time to ride the cybernetic horse. Our strategic thinking makes the conquering steed tame. Man and machine heading towards the north and ideals, crossing the seven seas. My Father and Catecan will conquer the world.

I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
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lkaufman
Posts: 6189
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Full name: Larry Kaufman

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by lkaufman »

Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:14 pm
Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:29 am
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 5:01 pm
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:47 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:47 am
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:57 am Mr. Larry Kaufman.
This performance in the fight of man against machine with odds is really wonderful.
I consider that in man-machine duels with odds, that in some way, there are real probabilities on the part of the human being to acquire progress in shortening the distances.
If at any time you wish or consider that it is useful for you to participate in man-versus-machine duels, I would be attentive to an invitation, in exchange for the sole pleasure of playing chess, without a prize of any kind.
Thank you. Your games have been helpful in highlighting the issue of allowing early repetition draws, we're working on ways to reduce them. If you want to know what I would consider most useful, I would like to see you play games with LeelaQueenForKnight, at whatever time limit allows you to win a decent percentage of the games. It's most helpful when players pick a handicap that is a bit difficult for them but where the win/loss ratio is not too one-sided. My guess is that you'll need a fairly slow blitz or even Rapid TC to do this; it's WAY harder than actual queen odds, though easier for the human than rook odds.
...excellent odds!! I have stated, ( 20 games ) I believe that as human beings playing against odds, we have the possibility of learning more about the odds and thus increase the probability of improving the results... I have a question; What could be the estimated elo of this odds? Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman.
In LiChess blitz games that bot performs around 2400 Lichess level, which is considered to be equivalent to 2235 FIDE rating. Of course it would be lower at longer time controls, but you are playing blitz, so the above is appropriate for you.

1.733 / 5.000
Mr. Larry Kaufman. Just a few minutes ago, I finished my first match against "LeelaQueenOdds". I played ten matches, and the final result was the following: 6 points to the computer, 4 points to me. The computer won 5 matches against me, I won 3 matches against the computer, and there were two draws. I mistakenly believed that it would be a simple matter to beat the computer. But nothing could be further from the truth. I played the games with a 3-minute time control. The computer knocked me out four times in a row... I went into a deep shock. I was then forced to make a quick change of strategy, using all my experience. A round of only ten matches, and I was defeated four times. !! I asked myself what to do against this beast, who without legs and without one of its hands was annihilating me!! So, game number five was my first win, game number six a draw, game number seven my second win, game number eight a draw, game number nine represented the tragedy of my fifth loss, and game number ten represented my third win. If we divide the tournament into two stages, game number one to game number four shows a computer that takes me by surprise. And game number four to game ten, a modification of my flexible thinking, which gives a favorable result in my favor of four against two. But... I lost. Nothing to say, and instead, a lot to thank the creators of this ODDS for. Without a doubt, I recommend this odds. The reason is simple... it allows us to play chess, to improve ourselves, and it gives us the joy of playing against someone better than the human world champion, who gives us the opportunity without his queen, to play chess. Thank you.
...The sun that gives us light and life rises to the heavens. Today I have understood that we can be better, move forward, progress and evolve as human beings. Yesterday ending the day at night I lost 6-4. Today at the beginning of the day I beat the computer 7-3. I have tamed the furious horse, now it is time to ride the cybernetic horse. Our strategic thinking makes the conquering steed tame. Man and machine heading towards the north and ideals, crossing the seven seas. My Father and Catecan will conquer the world.

Note that right now, only the knight odds bot is specifically trained for odds, but it is likely that the other bots will be updated very soon to use the net trained for knight odds, as it seems to be stronger than the normal version even at larger odds. So once the switch is made, expect it to get even harder to win at queen odds!
Komodo rules!
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Father
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
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Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:16 pm
Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:14 pm
Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:29 am
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 5:01 pm
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:47 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:47 am
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:57 am Mr. Larry Kaufman.
This performance in the fight of man against machine with odds is really wonderful.
I consider that in man-machine duels with odds, that in some way, there are real probabilities on the part of the human being to acquire progress in shortening the distances.
If at any time you wish or consider that it is useful for you to participate in man-versus-machine duels, I would be attentive to an invitation, in exchange for the sole pleasure of playing chess, without a prize of any kind.
Thank you. Your games have been helpful in highlighting the issue of allowing early repetition draws, we're working on ways to reduce them. If you want to know what I would consider most useful, I would like to see you play games with LeelaQueenForKnight, at whatever time limit allows you to win a decent percentage of the games. It's most helpful when players pick a handicap that is a bit difficult for them but where the win/loss ratio is not too one-sided. My guess is that you'll need a fairly slow blitz or even Rapid TC to do this; it's WAY harder than actual queen odds, though easier for the human than rook odds.
...excellent odds!! I have stated, ( 20 games ) I believe that as human beings playing against odds, we have the possibility of learning more about the odds and thus increase the probability of improving the results... I have a question; What could be the estimated elo of this odds? Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman.
In LiChess blitz games that bot performs around 2400 Lichess level, which is considered to be equivalent to 2235 FIDE rating. Of course it would be lower at longer time controls, but you are playing blitz, so the above is appropriate for you.

1.733 / 5.000
Mr. Larry Kaufman. Just a few minutes ago, I finished my first match against "LeelaQueenOdds". I played ten matches, and the final result was the following: 6 points to the computer, 4 points to me. The computer won 5 matches against me, I won 3 matches against the computer, and there were two draws. I mistakenly believed that it would be a simple matter to beat the computer. But nothing could be further from the truth. I played the games with a 3-minute time control. The computer knocked me out four times in a row... I went into a deep shock. I was then forced to make a quick change of strategy, using all my experience. A round of only ten matches, and I was defeated four times. !! I asked myself what to do against this beast, who without legs and without one of its hands was annihilating me!! So, game number five was my first win, game number six a draw, game number seven my second win, game number eight a draw, game number nine represented the tragedy of my fifth loss, and game number ten represented my third win. If we divide the tournament into two stages, game number one to game number four shows a computer that takes me by surprise. And game number four to game ten, a modification of my flexible thinking, which gives a favorable result in my favor of four against two. But... I lost. Nothing to say, and instead, a lot to thank the creators of this ODDS for. Without a doubt, I recommend this odds. The reason is simple... it allows us to play chess, to improve ourselves, and it gives us the joy of playing against someone better than the human world champion, who gives us the opportunity without his queen, to play chess. Thank you.
...The sun that gives us light and life rises to the heavens. Today I have understood that we can be better, move forward, progress and evolve as human beings. Yesterday ending the day at night I lost 6-4. Today at the beginning of the day I beat the computer 7-3. I have tamed the furious horse, now it is time to ride the cybernetic horse. Our strategic thinking makes the conquering steed tame. Man and machine heading towards the north and ideals, crossing the seven seas. My Father and Catecan will conquer the world.

Note that right now, only the knight odds bot is specifically trained for odds, but it is likely that the other bots will be updated very soon to use the net trained for knight odds, as it seems to be stronger than the normal version even at larger odds. So once the switch is made, expect it to get even harder to win at queen odds!
Thank you, Mr. Larry Kaufman. Once again I would like to give an opinion:
The superiority of chess computers is more than evident. Thus, and as a consequence of such superiority of the machine, the human being repeatedly hits a rock. Therefore, a good menu of odds, acts as a good table, where each diner chooses the dinner. Just as an example, for now and up to now, in time controls of 3 minutes per game, I perceive myself as superior to the oddsqueen. But it requires me to be very alert. The best thing ... this odds allows me to savor the food, which is not feasible when eating the entire plate without odds. Likewise, each player will be able to choose dinner and dessert according to his own strength, state of health, and size of stomach. Even observing some games, I was able to observe a game in which an international master lost a battle with an extra queen and the computer without the queen.
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
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Father
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:16 pm
Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:14 pm
Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:29 am
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 5:01 pm
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:47 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:47 am
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:57 am Mr. Larry Kaufman.
This performance in the fight of man against machine with odds is really wonderful.
I consider that in man-machine duels with odds, that in some way, there are real probabilities on the part of the human being to acquire progress in shortening the distances.
If at any time you wish or consider that it is useful for you to participate in man-versus-machine duels, I would be attentive to an invitation, in exchange for the sole pleasure of playing chess, without a prize of any kind.
Thank you. Your games have been helpful in highlighting the issue of allowing early repetition draws, we're working on ways to reduce them. If you want to know what I would consider most useful, I would like to see you play games with LeelaQueenForKnight, at whatever time limit allows you to win a decent percentage of the games. It's most helpful when players pick a handicap that is a bit difficult for them but where the win/loss ratio is not too one-sided. My guess is that you'll need a fairly slow blitz or even Rapid TC to do this; it's WAY harder than actual queen odds, though easier for the human than rook odds.
...excellent odds!! I have stated, ( 20 games ) I believe that as human beings playing against odds, we have the possibility of learning more about the odds and thus increase the probability of improving the results... I have a question; What could be the estimated elo of this odds? Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman.
In LiChess blitz games that bot performs around 2400 Lichess level, which is considered to be equivalent to 2235 FIDE rating. Of course it would be lower at longer time controls, but you are playing blitz, so the above is appropriate for you.

1.733 / 5.000
Mr. Larry Kaufman. Just a few minutes ago, I finished my first match against "LeelaQueenOdds". I played ten matches, and the final result was the following: 6 points to the computer, 4 points to me. The computer won 5 matches against me, I won 3 matches against the computer, and there were two draws. I mistakenly believed that it would be a simple matter to beat the computer. But nothing could be further from the truth. I played the games with a 3-minute time control. The computer knocked me out four times in a row... I went into a deep shock. I was then forced to make a quick change of strategy, using all my experience. A round of only ten matches, and I was defeated four times. !! I asked myself what to do against this beast, who without legs and without one of its hands was annihilating me!! So, game number five was my first win, game number six a draw, game number seven my second win, game number eight a draw, game number nine represented the tragedy of my fifth loss, and game number ten represented my third win. If we divide the tournament into two stages, game number one to game number four shows a computer that takes me by surprise. And game number four to game ten, a modification of my flexible thinking, which gives a favorable result in my favor of four against two. But... I lost. Nothing to say, and instead, a lot to thank the creators of this ODDS for. Without a doubt, I recommend this odds. The reason is simple... it allows us to play chess, to improve ourselves, and it gives us the joy of playing against someone better than the human world champion, who gives us the opportunity without his queen, to play chess. Thank you.
...The sun that gives us light and life rises to the heavens. Today I have understood that we can be better, move forward, progress and evolve as human beings. Yesterday ending the day at night I lost 6-4. Today at the beginning of the day I beat the computer 7-3. I have tamed the furious horse, now it is time to ride the cybernetic horse. Our strategic thinking makes the conquering steed tame. Man and machine heading towards the north and ideals, crossing the seven seas. My Father and Catecan will conquer the world.

Note that right now, only the knight odds bot is specifically trained for odds, but it is likely that the other bots will be updated very soon to use the net trained for knight odds, as it seems to be stronger than the normal version even at larger odds. So once the switch is made, expect it to get even harder to win at queen odds!
... A question. Let's imagine an open tournament with about 200 participants. One of the 200 players is leelaOddsQueen. In the imaginary scenario, there are 5 grandmasters, 10 international masters, 30 top-class players, and 155 players of all kinds; The time control, 3 minutes per game, and 8 hours straight in the masnau. I wonder? Where in the table would OddsQueen probably be? Probable Elo? Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman ...
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
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Father
Posts: 1764
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re:

Post by Father »

Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 7:41 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:16 pm
Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:14 pm
Father wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:29 am
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 5:01 pm
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:47 pm
lkaufman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:47 am
Father wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:57 am Mr. Larry Kaufman.
This performance in the fight of man against machine with odds is really wonderful.
I consider that in man-machine duels with odds, that in some way, there are real probabilities on the part of the human being to acquire progress in shortening the distances.
If at any time you wish or consider that it is useful for you to participate in man-versus-machine duels, I would be attentive to an invitation, in exchange for the sole pleasure of playing chess, without a prize of any kind.
Thank you. Your games have been helpful in highlighting the issue of allowing early repetition draws, we're working on ways to reduce them. If you want to know what I would consider most useful, I would like to see you play games with LeelaQueenForKnight, at whatever time limit allows you to win a decent percentage of the games. It's most helpful when players pick a handicap that is a bit difficult for them but where the win/loss ratio is not too one-sided. My guess is that you'll need a fairly slow blitz or even Rapid TC to do this; it's WAY harder than actual queen odds, though easier for the human than rook odds.
...excellent odds!! I have stated, ( 20 games ) I believe that as human beings playing against odds, we have the possibility of learning more about the odds and thus increase the probability of improving the results... I have a question; What could be the estimated elo of this odds? Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman.
In LiChess blitz games that bot performs around 2400 Lichess level, which is considered to be equivalent to 2235 FIDE rating. Of course it would be lower at longer time controls, but you are playing blitz, so the above is appropriate for you.

1.733 / 5.000
Mr. Larry Kaufman. Just a few minutes ago, I finished my first match against "LeelaQueenOdds". I played ten matches, and the final result was the following: 6 points to the computer, 4 points to me. The computer won 5 matches against me, I won 3 matches against the computer, and there were two draws. I mistakenly believed that it would be a simple matter to beat the computer. But nothing could be further from the truth. I played the games with a 3-minute time control. The computer knocked me out four times in a row... I went into a deep shock. I was then forced to make a quick change of strategy, using all my experience. A round of only ten matches, and I was defeated four times. !! I asked myself what to do against this beast, who without legs and without one of its hands was annihilating me!! So, game number five was my first win, game number six a draw, game number seven my second win, game number eight a draw, game number nine represented the tragedy of my fifth loss, and game number ten represented my third win. If we divide the tournament into two stages, game number one to game number four shows a computer that takes me by surprise. And game number four to game ten, a modification of my flexible thinking, which gives a favorable result in my favor of four against two. But... I lost. Nothing to say, and instead, a lot to thank the creators of this ODDS for. Without a doubt, I recommend this odds. The reason is simple... it allows us to play chess, to improve ourselves, and it gives us the joy of playing against someone better than the human world champion, who gives us the opportunity without his queen, to play chess. Thank you.
...The sun that gives us light and life rises to the heavens. Today I have understood that we can be better, move forward, progress and evolve as human beings. Yesterday ending the day at night I lost 6-4. Today at the beginning of the day I beat the computer 7-3. I have tamed the furious horse, now it is time to ride the cybernetic horse. Our strategic thinking makes the conquering steed tame. Man and machine heading towards the north and ideals, crossing the seven seas. My Father and Catecan will conquer the world.

Note that right now, only the knight odds bot is specifically trained for odds, but it is likely that the other bots will be updated very soon to use the net trained for knight odds, as it seems to be stronger than the normal version even at larger odds. So once the switch is made, expect it to get even harder to win at queen odds!
... A question. Let's imagine an open tournament with about 200 participants. One of the 200 players is leelaOddsQueen. In the imaginary scenario, there are 5 grandmasters, 10 international masters, 30 top-class players, and 155 players of all kinds; The time control, 3 minutes per game, and 8 hours straight in the masnau. I wonder? Where in the table would OddsQueen probably be? Probable Elo? Thank you Mr. Larry Kaufman ...
[Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/KorV9oRr"]
[Date "2024.10.24"]
[White "Catecan"]
[Black "LeelaQueenOdds"]
[Result "1-0"]
[UTCDate "2024.10.24"]
[UTCTime "17:49:35"]
[WhiteElo "2030"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[BlackTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnb1kbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. e3 d5 3. f4 c5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. c3 e5 6. fxe5 Ne4 7. Bd3 f5 8. exf6 Nxf6 9. Qc2 Bd6 10. O-O Bc7 11. e4 dxe4 12. Bxe4 O-O 13. Bxc6 bxc6 14. dxc5 Ba6 15. Re1 Rae8 16. Nbd2 Rxe1+ 17. Nxe1 g5 18. h3 g4 19. hxg4 Nxg4 20. Nef3 Rd8 21. Nf1 Rf8 22. Bg5 Ne5 23. Nxe5 Bxe5 24. Be3 Bxf1 25. Rxf1 Bh2+ 26. Kxh2 Rxf1 27. Bf2 Rxf2 28. Qxf2 Kg7 29. Qf5 a5 30. Qe6 a4 31. Qxc6 a3 32. b4 Kf7 33. Qa4 Ke6 34. Qxa3 Ke5 35. Qb3 h5 36. c4 h4 37. a4 h3 38. Kxh3 Ke4 39. b5 Kf5 40. Qb4 Ke4 41. c6 Kd3 42. c5 Ke3 43. b6 Kd3 44. a5 Ke3 45. a6 Kd3 46. c7 Ke3 47. c6 Ke2 48. Qb5+ Ke3 49. b7 Kd2 50. a7 Ke3 51. c8=Q Kd2 52. c7 Ke3 53. Qce8+ Kd2 54. Qd5+ Kc3 55. c8=Q+ Kb2 56. b8=Q+ Ka1 57. a8=Q# { White wins by checkmate. } 1-0
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
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